Do you believe that the NHRA techs are doing their job?

[Paul Ceasrine]

See how everyhting gets convoluted.
In the Marines they called that a 'Cluster - - - -'

Bobby Z.
'Correcto-Mundo',, just because it slid by the techs at one race,
it doesn't make it right.
Techs are like NFL Lineman Refs.
Each one has their own understanding of 'offensive holding'.

Are they doing their job? Can anyone really evaluate them.
It was simpler for them back in the 60's.
Just as many cars, but less classes.. Easier to check.
Entrance fee's were a 'mere pitance'.
How can you look a racer in the eye today, with all the money he spends on a competitive car, the tow rig, travelling expenses and crazy entrance fee, and DQ him for some no-nothing item or minor infraction.
I couldn't do it, and I'm sure the current tech force can't.
pc

[art leong]

Originally Posted by SS/GSI

I guess I have to explain in more detail for those who cannot understand short form conversation.

When I said NHRA techs, I mean all that the represent, seeing as they are the biggest presence we rely on to represent those slackers in Cali. By the way if their pay is reflective of their interest or capability of doing their job, than they are right on pace. If they feel they are underpaid and this is a direct result of the lack of attention being paid to the cars in Stock and Super Stock, then ask for more money, God knows at an average of $500/entry with crew at a minimum and 400 sportsman cars/ race in a National Event they should be able to afford them a raise. I agree, safety first; however legality second.

For the people that do not believe that the correct accents on your vehicle should not be a huge concern (ie. hoods, tail lights, decals FRAMES), four words, Go Run Super Street.

If you do not want to put the pride an passion into knowing your car is a true Stock or Super Stocker; however want no electronics racing, I suggest you go run No Box in the IHRA, they need the car counts.

I heard of people getting torn down and DQed at every kind of event, not just Nationals or Class events. Now its almost only at INDY, wow 30 cars out of 3000 active members.

When I spoke of the rise and fall of the economy, I was saying it as a generalization of all the fluctuations in economic times since the begining of this sport.

One last comment. I also believe, unless your car is broken, and you can prove it, then running to a 1000' should be a DQ. It wasn't allowed back in the day and it shouldn't be encouraged or tolerated.

While I would like NHRA to police cars a bit more during tech. We are all grown-ups and know how to read a rule book. As far as the nit-picking goes. I'm sure most of us that race are happy those days are gone. Some one mentioned that years ago they had to get an ashtray. What would that person do now? Go home?
And When was sandbagging not allowed? In the sixties they ran record to record with a tenth breakout, Except for the final. So you tried to sandbag a bit.
In the seventies after indexes were established, you were allowed to dial under your index one time (usually before 8AM). And you ran that dial all day. With our hemi car we would sometimes go through 2 sets of front runners at a race.
I'm a little tired of people coming on here trying to reinvent the wheel, It isn't perfect but it's what we've got. Nobody forces us to race. But thats only my $.02

[Paul Ceasrine]

Art,
Maybe not re-invent the wheel, just round it off a bit.
Like grinding the excess high-points off the intake port.

Remember how some of the cars did the nose-dive just before the traps,
back in Eliminator in the late 60's.
Saw more than a few Hemi's nearly go off the side of the track, just
to prevent from breaking out. Putting all that weight on the nose.
Surprised no torsion bars came up through the floor boards.
pc

[Toyotakid]

Originally Posted by cicero819

"if it's not written in the rule book than it's legal" and we all know that you can always push that fine line. I find people who puch the envelope shouldn't be considered cheaters, just explorers.

I so wish this was the case. When the sport compact series went belly up because of monetary reasons in 2007, I knew to stay viable in the NHRA market I had to find a place to race in Super Stock or Comp. I found a couple classes that I could fit into but because my car is unique they referred to page 14 in the rulebook under how to use this rule book, "Unless modification is specifically permitted by this rulebook, it is prohibited." Needless to say it took till 2009 before I had the SS/EX class to run in.

Now after running with you guys for the past year, I don’t think the problem lies with tech, the main issue is with the index system. When really looking at Super Stock class indexes there is no "specific" guideline on base indexes and there is a HUGE inconsistency from one weight break to the next. For example, In the MX classification there are 4 normally aspirated classes.

SS/AX - 8.5 lbs per inch - 9.50 index
SS/BX - 11.0 lbs per inch - 10.55 index
SS/CX - 12.5 lbs per inch - 10.80 index
SS/EX - 11.5 lbs per inch - 10.50 index - Front Drive Only

The difference between AX and BX is 1.05 seconds. If you divide that by 5 (that breaks it down per .5 lb increments) it breaks down to .21 per .5 lbs of weight. The difference between BX and CX is .25. If you break it down the same way the NHRA factor drops to .08 per .5 lbs of weight when it should be the NHRA .21 per .5 lbs for the AX and BX class. Plus, the EX class index is .5 lbs heavier than BX and the index is .05 less! That is the only class anywhere in the rulebook that that happens. When I looked at all Super Stock classes I found many more of these discrepancies.

So long story longer, NHRA needs to come up with indexes that make sense and are on a level playing field for EVERYONE!

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Toyotakid

I so wish this was the case. When the sport compact series went belly up because of monetary reasons in 2007, I knew to stay viable in the NHRA market I had to find a place to race in Super Stock or Comp. I found a couple classes that I could fit into but because my car is unique they referred to page 14 in the rulebook under how to use this rule book, "Unless modification is specifically permitted by this rulebook, it is prohibited." Needless to say it took till 2009 before I had the SS/EX class to run in.

Now after running with you guys for the past year, I don’t think the problem lies with tech, the main issue is with the index system. When really looking at Super Stock class indexes there is no "specific" guideline on base indexes and there is a HUGE inconsistency from one weight break to the next. For example, In the MX classification there are 4 normally aspirated classes.

SS/AX - 8.5 lbs per inch - 9.50 index
SS/BX - 11.0 lbs per inch - 10.55 index
SS/CX - 12.5 lbs per inch - 10.80 index
SS/EX - 11.5 lbs per inch - 10.50 index - Front Drive Only

The difference between AX and BX is 1.05 seconds. If you divide that by 5 (that breaks it down per .5 lb increments) it breaks down to .21 per .5 lbs of weight. The difference between BX and CX is .25. If you break it down the same way the NHRA factor drops to .08 per .5 lbs of weight when it should be the NHRA .21 per .5 lbs for the AX and BX class. Plus, the EX class index is .5 lbs heavier than BX and the index is .05 less! That is the only class anywhere in the rulebook that that happens. When I looked at all Super Stock classes I found many more of these discrepancies.

So long story longer, NHRA needs to come up with indexes that make sense and are on a level playing field for EVERYONE!

Scott 2 big differences fuel injection, and methanol, Plus the rules for EX are different than the RWD classes. I agree the index in EX is stiffer than the others. I believe that NHRA just took the AllMotor class and used that for a template. Et's included The half second they softened it wasn't really enough. A car would have a hard time at Indy, elswhere it does not really matter, except for the person building a new car.
If my index got hit it would not effect Tim or myself much. But the guy thats building a new piece would just have to spend that much more labor and money to run the car.
One thing about hitting the index or the combo does is cripple the slower cars. Not the cars that caused the hit.

[Stewart Way]

I started working in Div II and at Nats in 1970. Don't have my 70 rule book handy but the 71 book for S and SS says in the body section "Alterations or customizing to gain class advantage prohibited." I took that to mean that if someone, for example, changed a 70 duster grill to a 71 but still ran the car as a 70 then it was not to "gain" an advantage and it was OK. But if you were going to change the year of a car from 70 and claim 71 everything needed to be changed to be correct. This view was not shared by everyone in Tech especially at Nat events and my "reading" was not allowed. Sometime later the rulebook was changed to read "Alterations or customizing prohibited." At that point the incorrect tail lights, grills, louvers and other body parts needed to be correct, advantage or not.
I could not do tech today. I still know the older cars pretty well but 76 up I would be in trouble

[J DeForrest]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Everywhere I have been the Tech guys have been under paid, hard working, dedicated, helpful people.

I have no complaints, and sure would not want their jobs. I'm thankful they work like they do so we can play. If you think they are lax, just tear down in Div 4.

I agree. Many tech guys I have ben in contact with work very hard for long hours because they love the sport. Try to get something by Wayne in D5 or Travis in D3. Very knowledgeable guys who are paying attention. We have been in teardown twice in the last year with a SS car in D5, and Travis went through all tech cards in Joilet checking classification/weight/etc for all Stock and SS cars. He had a long list of car #s that he thought something that was not proper. He addressed me with something minor, but had actually worked out as a plus. Nobody is perfect, but I have alot of respect for the tech guys I have been in contact with.

Jason

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by J DeForrest

I agree. Many tech guys I have ben in contact with work very hard for long hours because they love the sport. Try to get something by Wayne in D5 or Travis in D3. Very knowledgeable guys who are paying attention. We have been in teardown twice in the last year with a SS car in D5, and Travis went through all tech cards in Joilet checking classification/weight/etc for all Stock and SS cars. He had a long list of car #s that he thought something that was not proper. He addressed me with something minor, but had actually worked out as a plus. Nobody is perfect, but I have alot of respect for the tech guys I have been in contact with.

Jason

Dave Ley from Div. 1 and Travis from Div. 3 are among the best NHRA has on staff.

[herbjr]

Originally Posted by mtkawboy

We used to just out 1 blantently illegal easy to change thing in plain sight so they could jump on it & make you change it and they were happy back in the late 70s & early 80's. Otherwise they kept looking until they found something

That was my dads favorite trick even in the Pro Stock Days.

Herb Jr

[Bobby DiDomenico]

Originally Posted by herbjr

That was my dads favorite trick even in the Pro Stock Days.

Herb Jr

Herbbie, he's gonna cut you out of the will!