D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option - Page 2

msteen · 08-02-2010, 05:46 PM

The car I run is a 66 valiant post 273/235 Currently rated at 230, needs to be at 220. The quest to go faster made me consider the 275hp combo and run gt in my car. With just a carb change it apealed to me, so I did some dyno testing with the 700 holley and some cam changes to try and make the most of the carb swap and found it to be only worth about 30-35 hp. The jump to gt would be .5 sec quicker index [ if I did the math correctly ] and 35hp dousn't equal .5 sec.

Matt

Paul Ceasrine · 08-02-2010, 06:46 PM

Matt,
Your 66' is a nice Super/Stocker.
A friend is toying with the idea of running a 65' V-200
273/235HP (210HP re-factor) in stock.
A little lighter car by about 100lbs.
Unless NHRA does what you said, change to 220HP in S/S.
The 66' D-Dart engine over-rated at 275HP, should be re-factored also, to maybe 240HP for S/S.
NHRA should look into that engine combo, re-factor it, and allow it for
66' A-Body Mopars across the board.
Paul

msteen · 08-02-2010, 08:09 PM

Thanks Paul, the 210hp in stock does make the combo a bit better. I'll be brushing up on my letter writing skills to NHRA after the nats at Brainerd for a 10hp discount.

treessavoy · 08-02-2010, 08:28 PM

OK,

Let's say the NHRA decides to let me run the D/Dart in stock. Besides the HP change what changes can I make to the package to make it competitive and what special pieces do I need?....intake, carb, etc?

JimR

Paul Ceasrine · 08-03-2010, 09:01 AM

Jim,
I think the only way the D-Dart engine 275HP would be competitive, is if they re-rated it to 245HP for stock. Where it really should be.
It would put the 66 Dart (#2942 lbs.) into the 12.00-12.49 wth/hp (I/S).

Holley carb #4160 700cfm (1 11/16" x 1 11/16") and the Cam-Craft
.495/.505 w/282* duration camshaft didn't make that 275HP.
I think Mother Mopar (Dodge Boys) fudged the HP rating a little
back in 66', to get it into D/S (10.60-11.29 wt/hp).
One wonders, if they properly rated it at 250HP (back in the day),
what it would have done in E/Stock (11.30-11.88 wt/hp)
pc

treessavoy · 08-03-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

Jim,
I think the only way the D-Dart engine 275HP would be competitive, is if they re-rated it to 245HP for stock. Where it really should be.
It would put the 66 Dart (#2942 lbs.) into the 12.00-12.49 wth/hp (I/S).

Holley carb #4160 700cfm (1 11/16" x 1 11/16") and the Cam-Craft
.495/.505 w/282* duration camshaft didn't make that 275HP.
I think Mother Mopar (Dodge Boys) fudged the HP rating a little
back in 66', to get it into D/S (10.60-11.29 wt/hp).
One wonders, if they properly rated it at 250HP (back in the day),
what it would have done in E/Stock (11.30-11.88 wt/hp)
pc

Paul,

No doubt they fudged the HP just as they did with the 426/365 combo. If the NHRA let it run STK and dropped the HP to 240 would it be competitive in stock with the stock heads and the stock intake or would it need superceded heads and manifold in order to compete?

Can we build one one paper here that would be competitive?

JimR

Paul Ceasrine · 08-03-2010, 02:35 PM

Jim R,
The 275HP D-Dart engine combo would only be competitive if the
HP was re-factored to 240HP.
The cast iron intake (carb holes) would have to be bored out to
1 11/16" (primary and secondary), to suit the Holley.
It would be worth a shot, for stock only.
For Super/Stock, as Matt said, 'Take a pass on that combo'.

Too bad Mopar didn't stay with their original 1966 idea.
273/180HP 2-barrel
273/200HP 4-barrel
273/225HP 4-barrel Commando
273/240HP 4-barrel Commando II
273/255HP 4-barrel (E-Dart)
pc

Todd Boyer · 08-03-2010, 07:18 PM

I'd LOVE to build a '67 Valiant with Matt's 273-235/230 (220???) combo for SS/L. Gotta check the lottery tickets !!!!

Paul Ceasrine · 08-04-2010, 09:24 AM

Todd,
If your 67' project doesn't go through.
I know where there is a 1965 V-200 4-door sedan.
An original 273/235HP Commando 4-speed.
One of the few 'special order' order cars for the
New York City Taxi Commision, back in late 65'
All black, w/black interior.
Car is hiding in the back of a junk-yard in Columbia County , New York.
100% original and complete.
Been sitting there since 1973.
pc

Todd Boyer · 08-04-2010, 06:19 PM

Hmmmmm....a four door Valiant Super Stocker ....????? I actually have to build my E/SA '69 340 Dart first, but thanks Paul.

08-02-2010, 05:46 PM	#11
msteen Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: marshall, mn. Posts: 4 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option The car I run is a 66 valiant post 273/235 Currently rated at 230, needs to be at 220. The quest to go faster made me consider the 275hp combo and run gt in my car. With just a carb change it apealed to me, so I did some dyno testing with the 700 holley and some cam changes to try and make the most of the carb swap and found it to be only worth about 30-35 hp. The jump to gt would be .5 sec quicker index [ if I did the math correctly ] and 35hp dousn't equal .5 sec. Matt

08-02-2010, 06:46 PM	#12
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option Matt, Your 66' is a nice Super/Stocker. A friend is toying with the idea of running a 65' V-200 273/235HP (210HP re-factor) in stock. A little lighter car by about 100lbs. Unless NHRA does what you said, change to 220HP in S/S. The 66' D-Dart engine over-rated at 275HP, should be re-factored also, to maybe 240HP for S/S. NHRA should look into that engine combo, re-factor it, and allow it for 66' A-Body Mopars across the board. Paul

08-02-2010, 08:09 PM	#13
msteen Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: marshall, mn. Posts: 4 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option Thanks Paul, the 210hp in stock does make the combo a bit better. I'll be brushing up on my letter writing skills to NHRA after the nats at Brainerd for a 10hp discount.

08-02-2010, 08:28 PM	#14
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option OK, Let's say the NHRA decides to let me run the D/Dart in stock. Besides the HP change what changes can I make to the package to make it competitive and what special pieces do I need?....intake, carb, etc? JimR __________________ Jim Rountree

08-03-2010, 09:01 AM	#15
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option Jim, I think the only way the D-Dart engine 275HP would be competitive, is if they re-rated it to 245HP for stock. Where it really should be. It would put the 66 Dart (#2942 lbs.) into the 12.00-12.49 wth/hp (I/S). Holley carb #4160 700cfm (1 11/16" x 1 11/16") and the Cam-Craft .495/.505 w/282* duration camshaft didn't make that 275HP. I think Mother Mopar (Dodge Boys) fudged the HP rating a little back in 66', to get it into D/S (10.60-11.29 wt/hp). One wonders, if they properly rated it at 250HP (back in the day), what it would have done in E/Stock (11.30-11.88 wt/hp) pc

08-03-2010, 02:35 PM	#17
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option Jim R, The 275HP D-Dart engine combo would only be competitive if the HP was re-factored to 240HP. The cast iron intake (carb holes) would have to be bored out to 1 11/16" (primary and secondary), to suit the Holley. It would be worth a shot, for stock only. For Super/Stock, as Matt said, 'Take a pass on that combo'. Too bad Mopar didn't stay with their original 1966 idea. 273/180HP 2-barrel 273/200HP 4-barrel 273/225HP 4-barrel Commando 273/240HP 4-barrel Commando II 273/255HP 4-barrel (E-Dart) pc

08-03-2010, 07:18 PM	#18
Todd Boyer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Saint John NB Canada Posts: 561 Likes: 30 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option I'd LOVE to build a '67 Valiant with Matt's 273-235/230 (220???) combo for SS/L. Gotta check the lottery tickets !!!!

08-04-2010, 09:24 AM	#19
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option Todd, If your 67' project doesn't go through. I know where there is a 1965 V-200 4-door sedan. An original 273/235HP Commando 4-speed. One of the few 'special order' order cars for the New York City Taxi Commision, back in late 65' All black, w/black interior. Car is hiding in the back of a junk-yard in Columbia County , New York. 100% original and complete. Been sitting there since 1973. pc

08-04-2010, 06:19 PM	#20
Todd Boyer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Saint John NB Canada Posts: 561 Likes: 30 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: D/Dart of 1966 Super Stock option Hmmmmm....a four door Valiant Super Stocker ....????? I actually have to build my E/SA '69 340 Dart first, but thanks Paul.