A case for aftermarket seats in stock - Page 3

Woodro Josey · 07-17-2010, 05:56 PM

Let me clear this up right now, i could care less where NHRA lets you use an aftermarket seat or not. When i was on the the SRAC committee, i recieved a lot of letters asking for the seats and we forwarded it to the NHRA Committee and they turned it down. Now as for the 5 HP, i don't remember NHRA giving SuperStock Horsepower when they started allowing the seats. I took my ride on a head on collision and my seat held up, but there are some cars that the seat will not! Just like Presidents, some of you vote one way, some of you vote another!

Chad Rhodes · 07-17-2010, 06:00 PM

so Dave, did you take your 5 hp hit for wheelie bars, for aftermarket brakes, etc.? Maybe they should give you 5 hp off for having a cage, since you would add weight for that, and it would be toward the front.

Jeff Goss · 07-17-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodro Josey

Let me clear this up right now, i could care less where NHRA lets you use an aftermarket seat or not. When i was on the the SRAC committee, i recieved a lot of letters asking for the seats and we forwarded it to the NHRA Committee and they turned it down. Now as for the 5 HP, i don't remember NHRA giving SuperStock Horsepower when they started allowing the seats. I took my ride on a head on collision and my seat held up, but there are some cars that the seat will not! Just like Presidents, some of you vote one way, some of you vote another!

They allow the seats, but you must have a cage if you put them in. In my case, it's up to me to add the weight of a cage vs. the weight reduction of the seats. Seems like a wash in my case,.

Dave Ficacci · 07-17-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

so Dave, did you take your 5 hp hit for wheelie bars, for aftermarket brakes, etc.? Maybe they should give you 5 hp off for having a cage, since you would add weight for that, and it would be toward the front.

No, but if they did, I would take them out. That's my point. I also don't follow your logic about how ADDING weight against the roof line for the cage in the interest of safety applies. That is probably the worst place in a racecar to add weight.

I like how you ignored my questions about the safety items. I'm guessing you fall into the group that runs NONE of those safety items..further proving my point that you want this enhancement for others reason than safety.

Tony Janes · 07-17-2010, 08:28 PM

I would say that Kirkey seats in a 69 camaro would save about 65 pounds. The question would be how much can one put in the trunk? The seats will make the car lighter even with the addition of the roll cage. Stock today is nothing more more than Super Stock with 9 inch tires, stock manifolds and stock lift cams. I think that Stock should have the same rules as Super Stock. Any rear end, transmission optional, roller rockers. None of this adds horsepower to the engine. In the case of the three speed vs a powerglide, it will make the car work better. in most cases. The big threat in stock today are drag paks and mustangs. Will NHRA do any of the above, probably not. While we are at this, lets add the 1955 to 1959 Chevys to stock.

Bob Don · 07-17-2010, 09:15 PM

This is probably an unpopular stance, but changing the seat rule would just be one more step in making stock less stock. I realize there have been a number of rule changes over the years that have taken stock further and further from where it began but where do you draw the line? You all built your cars for STOCK eliminator. If you want to do more mods, consider going to a different category where those mods are allowed. Tony James is right, stock has become a glorified super stock but I think it should try to remain true to its origins.

Mark Yacavone · 07-17-2010, 10:58 PM

I don't really care one way or the other how much money you want to dump into those cars.
I'd vote NO, just because of the way some of the fast guys treated the Deep Staging issue .
See how that works, guys?

Jim Wahl · 07-17-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

I don't really care one way or the other how much money you want to dump into those cars.
I'd vote NO, just because of the way some of the fast guys treated the Deep Staging issue .
See how that works, guys?

A very interesting statement. Jim

Chad Rhodes · 07-18-2010, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Ficacci

No, but if they did, I would take them out. That's my point. I also don't follow your logic about how ADDING weight against the roof line for the cage in the interest of safety applies. That is probably the worst place in a racecar to add weight.

I like how you ignored my questions about the safety items. I'm guessing you fall into the group that runs NONE of those safety items..further proving my point that you want this enhancement for others reason than safety.

I'll address your safety issues. Clothing, I wear everything but gloves. The A/SA car will get the cage and window net over the winter, not so much for the newly acquired I/SA, there is a full trans shield on the Vette, no diaper yet, but I'm not sold on those yet. I have very expensive full face helmet, however on a stock seat a HANS is mush less effective due to lack of a good headrest, according to a HANS rep at PRI.

As for another motive, sure I'd love to get my head lower in the vette, it's a tight squeeze. But the weight would be no advantage as we already run weight on the nose and have to run a second battery and 40lbs of lead to make even AA/SA. What's your reason for being so against race seats in a stocker???? Got a fortune tied up in a pair of Swiss cheesed lightened stock seats?

Evan Smith · 07-18-2010, 04:58 AM

Since the HANS prevents overextending the neck and head in an impact where your body goes forward (in most cases), why does the headrest in the seat matter?

As for seats, the stock seat in my Mustang, a vehicle built in the 1990s, has slop in it and I would be safer in a properly designed racing seat.

Most of the non-racing aftermarket replacement seats are not held to the same factory crash standards and would likely be no safer than a stock seat, even an old one. In fact they could be worse, despite being seemingly sturdy. Most stock seats have lots of bracing in the back area, in order to hold up in a crash, or severe back injury will result. I have actually spoken with Ford vehicle engineers about this in the past. There are, however, lots of good aftermarket drag racing and road racing seats on the market. A solution could be to run a factory seat from a later-model vehicle. Then you don't have to worry (as much) about a weight issue. Surely, a seat from a 2010 Camaro, Mustang or Dodge will be plenty safe.

I started wearing gloves when the pants rule was put in place. I felt that I should apply logic because ironically, you don't need fire protection on what to me is the two most important areas of your body—your face and hands. In the case of a fire, I want to protect my face (I wear a full face with shield down) and my hands. Most of us need our hands to make a living, so why wear a jacket, pants, helmet, and no gloves? I just made it part of my routine and it's no big deal. It took me about 10 runs to get comfortable with them. I also have an on-board fire system.

I agree with Greg in that perhaps we should look at seats because many cars are old and have potentially worn-out seats, tracks, hardware, etc., but those seriously interested in safety should also follow Dave's advise and first get everything allowed to protect yourself.

Evan

07-17-2010, 05:56 PM	#21
Woodro Josey Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 805 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 1 Post	Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock Let me clear this up right now, i could care less where NHRA lets you use an aftermarket seat or not. When i was on the the SRAC committee, i recieved a lot of letters asking for the seats and we forwarded it to the NHRA Committee and they turned it down. Now as for the 5 HP, i don't remember NHRA giving SuperStock Horsepower when they started allowing the seats. I took my ride on a head on collision and my seat held up, but there are some cars that the seat will not! Just like Presidents, some of you vote one way, some of you vote another! __________________ Woodro Josey 2002 STK Last edited by Woodro Josey; 07-17-2010 at 06:02 PM.

07-17-2010, 06:00 PM	#22
Chad Rhodes VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Where the Green Grass Grows, AL Posts: 2,375 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock so Dave, did you take your 5 hp hit for wheelie bars, for aftermarket brakes, etc.? Maybe they should give you 5 hp off for having a cage, since you would add weight for that, and it would be toward the front. __________________ Chad Rhodes 2113 I/SA

07-17-2010, 08:28 PM	#25
Tony Janes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Whittier, Ca Posts: 830 Likes: 94 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock I would say that Kirkey seats in a 69 camaro would save about 65 pounds. The question would be how much can one put in the trunk? The seats will make the car lighter even with the addition of the roll cage. Stock today is nothing more more than Super Stock with 9 inch tires, stock manifolds and stock lift cams. I think that Stock should have the same rules as Super Stock. Any rear end, transmission optional, roller rockers. None of this adds horsepower to the engine. In the case of the three speed vs a powerglide, it will make the car work better. in most cases. The big threat in stock today are drag paks and mustangs. Will NHRA do any of the above, probably not. While we are at this, lets add the 1955 to 1959 Chevys to stock. __________________ Tony Janes 7941 STK, SS

07-17-2010, 09:15 PM	#26
Bob Don VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Greater Boston Posts: 1,495 Likes: 1,114 Liked 900 Times in 191 Posts	Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock This is probably an unpopular stance, but changing the seat rule would just be one more step in making stock less stock. I realize there have been a number of rule changes over the years that have taken stock further and further from where it began but where do you draw the line? You all built your cars for STOCK eliminator. If you want to do more mods, consider going to a different category where those mods are allowed. Tony James is right, stock has become a glorified super stock but I think it should try to remain true to its origins. __________________ Bob Don 128 SS Last edited by Bob Don; 07-17-2010 at 10:02 PM.

07-17-2010, 10:58 PM	#27
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,809 Likes: 2,900 Liked 5,113 Times in 1,948 Posts	Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock I don't really care one way or the other how much money you want to dump into those cars. I'd vote NO, just because of the way some of the fast guys treated the Deep Staging issue . See how that works, guys? __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

07-18-2010, 04:58 AM	#30
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: A case for aftermarket seats in stock Since the HANS prevents overextending the neck and head in an impact where your body goes forward (in most cases), why does the headrest in the seat matter? As for seats, the stock seat in my Mustang, a vehicle built in the 1990s, has slop in it and I would be safer in a properly designed racing seat. Most of the non-racing aftermarket replacement seats are not held to the same factory crash standards and would likely be no safer than a stock seat, even an old one. In fact they could be worse, despite being seemingly sturdy. Most stock seats have lots of bracing in the back area, in order to hold up in a crash, or severe back injury will result. I have actually spoken with Ford vehicle engineers about this in the past. There are, however, lots of good aftermarket drag racing and road racing seats on the market. A solution could be to run a factory seat from a later-model vehicle. Then you don't have to worry (as much) about a weight issue. Surely, a seat from a 2010 Camaro, Mustang or Dodge will be plenty safe. I started wearing gloves when the pants rule was put in place. I felt that I should apply logic because ironically, you don't need fire protection on what to me is the two most important areas of your body—your face and hands. In the case of a fire, I want to protect my face (I wear a full face with shield down) and my hands. Most of us need our hands to make a living, so why wear a jacket, pants, helmet, and no gloves? I just made it part of my routine and it's no big deal. It took me about 10 runs to get comfortable with them. I also have an on-board fire system. I agree with Greg in that perhaps we should look at seats because many cars are old and have potentially worn-out seats, tracks, hardware, etc., but those seriously interested in safety should also follow Dave's advise and first get everything allowed to protect yourself. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK Last edited by Evan Smith; 07-18-2010 at 05:06 AM.