Another Racer Killed at E-Town

Dave Casey · 06-13-2010, 07:33 PM

I don't think that this is an Englishtown problem,I don't think it is short at all. Personally I thought that the shutdown was as long or longer than most of the tracks I have raced at. I walked the shutdown area a year or 2 ago.

Looking at the news photo, I was very surprised that the racer died. The cage looked intact.they obviously clipped the top off to get him out.

I believe the situation with Scott was differant in that he hit an obstacle in the shutdown area that is no longer there.

We are racing and it can be dangerous. There are so many things that can happen that there is no way of insuring total safety for every situation. sad but reality.

My thoughts and prayers to the family and friends

Carl Juliano · 06-13-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Casey

I don't think that this is an Englishtown problem,I don't think it is short at all. Personally I thought that the shutdown was as long or longer than most of the tracks I have raced at. I walked the shutdown area a year or 2 ago.

Looking at the news photo, I was very surprised that the racer died. The cage looked intact.they obviously clipped the top off to get him out.

I believe the situation with Scott was differant in that he hit an obstacle in the shutdown area that is no longer there.

We are racing and it can be dangerous. There are so many things that can happen that there is no way of insuring total safety for every situation. sad but reality.

My thoughts and prayers to the family and friends

Exactly my point Dave, I agree. I think alot of guys are forgetting the fact that this car was a "runaway", and not "coasting with no chutes". I think any National event track would have had their hands full containing such a vehicle.

rayfin · 06-15-2010, 02:28 AM

I was wondering why the chute just fell off of the one car and the roll cage was completely "broken" off the other car?

Alan Roehrich · 06-15-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayfin

I was wondering why the chute just fell off of the one car and the roll cage was completely "broken" off the other car?

I do not know why the chutes came off of the car last year, nor why the brakes failed.

I'm pretty sure they cut the cage off of the top of Neil Parker's car. That is standard operating procedure for removing an injured person from a wrecked race car. It's actually SOP for removing injured persons from most any wrecked car. The first concern for emergency personnel is to get the injured person out without causing further injury. If you take them out the top, you can do a better job of keeping the spine aligned. If you have to turn them and lay them over, odds are if there is a spinal injury, you'll make it worse.

It is interesting to note that the car that crashed last year lost its chutes, and reportedly lost its brakes, yet it went through both nets, but the second net was still holding the car somewhat, and the tire barrier stopped it. In the crash this year, the car evidently, from the photos, went through the tire barrier, and was a good distance past the tire barrier. It would appear that this year's crash was at a much higher speed.

Mike Carr · 06-15-2010, 09:00 AM

I believe, in the Alexis Dejoria accident in 2009, when the 'chutes ripped off, they tore the brake lines too.

Alan Roehrich · 06-15-2010, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

I believe, in the Alexis Dejoria accident in 2009, when the 'chutes ripped off, they tore the brake lines too.

That would explain that wreck. I thought I read somewhere that oil or something fouled her brakes, but you may have information from a better source, or something they found later.

X-TECH MAN · 06-15-2010, 11:05 AM

Alan.....50 cubic inches isnt enough. Cut all of the fuel, and alcohol cars back to 400 inches. Back in the stone age they used 392 and 426 Hemis in nTop FOOL. . Why not now. Cut the blower size and over drive, fuel pumps and mags. They wont do it though. Slower in in the spectator eyes as the way to go.

Alan Roehrich · 06-15-2010, 09:12 AM

It probably is time, and a good idea, for NHRA to look at taking some power away from the fuel cars, as they've far exceeded the design parameters of the tracks, and some of the parts they're using. Some of the older, more experienced crew chiefs have been saying that quietly for years.

If they simply took 50 cubic inches away, limited compression, and restricted blower speed, they could take 1000HP or more easily. For the cost of new pistons, new cranks, and new blower pulleys. The result would be the ability to return to 1/4 mile racing, less expense for the teams, and less time and money wasted on oil downs and fires.

The use of tailhook arrester gear on race cars probably isn't too practical. An entire new structure would be required for the back of the cars, requiring a whole new level of engineering. And it should be noted that these cars are not designed to be pulled or stretched, it might be necessary to redesign the whole frame to withstand the forces acting on them from stopping them abruptly by hooking the back of the car. Otherwise, it rips the back of the car off, and then catapults it further down track. Pulling cars apart is not a good idea. Further, even the best carrier pilots jump the wire, so there's no sure way to make sure the cars catch the wire, if the car doesn't catch the wire, the system is useless.

Perhaps a better idea is to use the braking technology from arrester gear on an improved catch net. The cars are designed to protect the driver from a front end crash, so the net shouldn't require massive changes to the cars. A stronger net, designed to actually capture the car, coupled to a braking system might do the trick. It's not going to tear the cars up any worse than the current system, either.

A longer sand/gravel pit, starting sooner, might be another improvement. Starting the pit earlier, and making the entrance less aggressive, might help stop the cars from skipping over it, as well as giving them more time to slow down gradually. It would also stop the slower cars less abruptly, with less damage and less chance of serious injury. It would allow an extra net or two as well. If we had two regular nets, possibly somewhat stronger, and better mounted, that would slow the cars more gradually, and stop some cars completely. Then, with a third net, with arrester gear style braking, as a final fail safe, you have a system for the fastest runaway cars.

W J · 06-13-2010, 07:47 PM

Just wondering if possibly Neal suffered a heart attack or some sort of consiousness loss to not pull his chute....maybe we'll find out, maybe not....Dave C., did you ever feel close to running out of real estate after a pass at Lebanon Valley?.....although shutdown is listed as 2600 feet, after seeing more than a few close calls there over the years, it always concerned me just a little.....WJ

Jim Wahl · 06-13-2010, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W J

Just wondering if possibly Neal suffered a heart attack or some sort of consiousness loss to not pull his chute....maybe we'll find out, maybe not....Dave C., did you ever feel close to running out of real estate after a pass at Lebanon Valley?.....although shutdown is listed as 2600 feet, after seeing more than a few close calls there over the years, it always concerned me just a little.....WJ

This is the first thing I thought of when I heard of this terrible accident. Jim

06-13-2010, 07:33 PM	#1
Dave Casey VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hampden, MA Posts: 1,201 Likes: 233 Liked 774 Times in 164 Posts	Re: Another Racer Killed at E-Town I don't think that this is an Englishtown problem,I don't think it is short at all. Personally I thought that the shutdown was as long or longer than most of the tracks I have raced at. I walked the shutdown area a year or 2 ago. Looking at the news photo, I was very surprised that the racer died. The cage looked intact.they obviously clipped the top off to get him out. I believe the situation with Scott was differant in that he hit an obstacle in the shutdown area that is no longer there. We are racing and it can be dangerous. There are so many things that can happen that there is no way of insuring total safety for every situation. sad but reality. My thoughts and prayers to the family and friends __________________ Dave Casey 1330 STK

06-15-2010, 02:28 AM	#3
rayfin Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: sioux city Posts: 134 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another Racer Killed at E-Town I was wondering why the chute just fell off of the one car and the roll cage was completely "broken" off the other car?

06-15-2010, 09:00 AM	#5
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: Another Racer Killed at E-Town I believe, in the Alexis Dejoria accident in 2009, when the 'chutes ripped off, they tore the brake lines too. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

06-15-2010, 11:05 AM	#7
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Another Racer Killed at E-Town Alan.....50 cubic inches isnt enough. Cut all of the fuel, and alcohol cars back to 400 inches. Back in the stone age they used 392 and 426 Hemis in nTop FOOL. . Why not now. Cut the blower size and over drive, fuel pumps and mags. They wont do it though. Slower in in the spectator eyes as the way to go.

06-15-2010, 09:12 AM	#8
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,111 Likes: 1,570 Liked 1,814 Times in 413 Posts	Re: Another Racer Killed at E-Town It probably is time, and a good idea, for NHRA to look at taking some power away from the fuel cars, as they've far exceeded the design parameters of the tracks, and some of the parts they're using. Some of the older, more experienced crew chiefs have been saying that quietly for years. If they simply took 50 cubic inches away, limited compression, and restricted blower speed, they could take 1000HP or more easily. For the cost of new pistons, new cranks, and new blower pulleys. The result would be the ability to return to 1/4 mile racing, less expense for the teams, and less time and money wasted on oil downs and fires. The use of tailhook arrester gear on race cars probably isn't too practical. An entire new structure would be required for the back of the cars, requiring a whole new level of engineering. And it should be noted that these cars are not designed to be pulled or stretched, it might be necessary to redesign the whole frame to withstand the forces acting on them from stopping them abruptly by hooking the back of the car. Otherwise, it rips the back of the car off, and then catapults it further down track. Pulling cars apart is not a good idea. Further, even the best carrier pilots jump the wire, so there's no sure way to make sure the cars catch the wire, if the car doesn't catch the wire, the system is useless. Perhaps a better idea is to use the braking technology from arrester gear on an improved catch net. The cars are designed to protect the driver from a front end crash, so the net shouldn't require massive changes to the cars. A stronger net, designed to actually capture the car, coupled to a braking system might do the trick. It's not going to tear the cars up any worse than the current system, either. A longer sand/gravel pit, starting sooner, might be another improvement. Starting the pit earlier, and making the entrance less aggressive, might help stop the cars from skipping over it, as well as giving them more time to slow down gradually. It would also stop the slower cars less abruptly, with less damage and less chance of serious injury. It would allow an extra net or two as well. If we had two regular nets, possibly somewhat stronger, and better mounted, that would slow the cars more gradually, and stop some cars completely. Then, with a third net, with arrester gear style braking, as a final fail safe, you have a system for the fastest runaway cars. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

06-13-2010, 07:47 PM	#9
W J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Paxton, Massachusetts Posts: 638 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another Racer Killed at E-Town Just wondering if possibly Neal suffered a heart attack or some sort of consiousness loss to not pull his chute....maybe we'll find out, maybe not....Dave C., did you ever feel close to running out of real estate after a pass at Lebanon Valley?.....although shutdown is listed as 2600 feet, after seeing more than a few close calls there over the years, it always concerned me just a little.....WJ Last edited by W J; 06-14-2010 at 11:58 AM. Reason: add content....