Index Change

X-TECH MAN · 12-20-2009, 08:32 AM

[QUOTE=Dion Hildebrandt; How does the nhra figure they are going to get new (young) blood excited about class racing when the current crop of drivers are questioning if it is even worth it to compete themselves? [/QUOTE]

In case you havent figured it out.......NHRA dosent care. Its all about the SHOW (Circus Acts).

Jim Bailey · 12-20-2009, 09:39 AM

Terry: That's really not a bad idea. Buy the end of 2010, even with the new index, All the Big Engine Mustangs, convertibles included, and the Big Engine Challengers should be AA cars or SuperStock only. (As they should be) It'll be interesting to see how the new smaller engine combo's of the purpose only built cars figure into the skeem of things. MAN, I can hear the whinning now!!! Maybe Stock Eliminator will be all Ford Mustangs and Dodge Challengers in every class...Now that would be fun to watch ... Spec Stock Eliminator Cars of the Future!! ... That's when I quit. JB

Jim Bailey · 12-20-2009, 09:50 AM

Opps, sorry, wrong thread! JB

RJ · 12-20-2009, 10:03 AM

The 2010 indexes are 1/2 second quicker than they were in 1976, squeezing out 5 tenths in last 34 years, about -.015 ET per year (especially with the liberalization of the rules) isn't much.

Alan Roehrich · 12-20-2009, 10:29 AM

I'm still not seeing this as a way to bring young people to Stock and Super Stock. After a year of the new cars in Stock and Super Stock, how many are being fielded by young people new to the sport? None that I've seen. There are a few driven by the "'kids" of Stock or Super Stock racers, but those "kids" were likely to race in Stock or Super Stock anyway.

Face facts. Stock and Super Stock are not cheap. That is one of the big reasons why we don't have new young people in the classes in large numbers. Young people can't afford it. And just because you bring in "new" cars that are just as expensive as "old" cars does not mean young people will suddenly be able to afford them.

Take stock in reality. We are the bastard step children of NHRA. They don't REALLY want to save our classes. We're a heavy load on their tech department, especially at the track. Face it, we complain a lot (most often, with good reason). When we generate a decent car count, we take up a lot of space and a lot of time.

NHRA keeps us around because we pay entry fees and buy crew passes. They keep us around because we pay membership fees and certification fees. They keep us around because we pay competition license and number fees. They keep us around because they take the lion's share of the contingency money posted for us. They keep us around because they make a killing off of stuff we buy at the track. NHRA doesn't love us, they don't want us, they don't really care about us, and they certainly are not concerned with "saving us".

The "new" cars are here because NHRA can make an extra dollar or two (or more) from them. They're here because NHRA gets paid to have them here. NHRA isn't going to make rules, change rules, and make allowances for anything they aren't getting paid for, or saving money on. NHRA is not the "benevolent" "non profit" governing body it once was, long ago. It is a for profit corporation, and the board is driven by the bottom line and how they can improve it.

I just do not see a bunch of twenty something or thirty something "new" racers showing up in these "new" cars in droves, or in any real numbers, to race Stock and Super Stock.

CycloneFE · 12-20-2009, 10:48 AM

Stock is not necessarily the way to start Drag Racing, look at Don Garlits. Even with factory help he didn't even get in at Indy. He has really got to work as you guys say.

danny waters sr · 12-20-2009, 10:51 AM

[/I] I agree Alan. The stocker world as we know it will die. However i do see the NEW generation of cars still hanging around after all us older gens begin to retire or just hang it up due to fustration or other reasons. Then this class of stock will look almost like the 10 &1/2 tire class except with a few diff rules. Almost all of the stock classes will be heads up due to the classes they fit in today. The simple solution "would" have been create a class for these new "stock" cars,that would not discourage the older muscle cars to just give up due to not being competive. At the present situation it is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Just my opinion and nothing against the new cars except they are classed wrong. Old stock as we knew it is on its way out and that is very sad.

Alan Roehrich · 12-20-2009, 11:04 AM

Danny, the old style class racing will only die if we let NHRA kill it. Before NHRA kills itself.

RJ · 12-20-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Take stock in reality. We are the bastard step children of NHRA. They don't REALLY want to save our classes. We're a heavy load on their tech department, especially at the track. Face it, we complain a lot (most often, with good reason).

To address this part of your post - As I suggested before, why not make it easier on NHRA/IHRA stock tech? - the heads are already ported anyway, and the piston/pins are already light anyway. Why not whistle test for compression, P&G for cubic inches, and put an inspection cover on the pan to put a bore scope through to check the bottom end, seal em' and send 'em on their way?

Your racing against guys that have had their own blocks and manifolds cast, big bearing billet cams, relocated lifter bores, etc. Integrity in stock is looooooong gone.

Alan Roehrich · 12-20-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ

To address this part of your post - As I suggested before, why not make it easier on NHRA/IHRA stock tech? - the heads are already ported anyway, and the piston/pins are already light anyway. Why not whistle test for compression, P&G for cubic inches, and put an inspection cover on the pan to put a bore scope through to check the bottom end, seal em' and send 'em on their way?

Your racing against guys that have had their own blocks and manifolds cast, big bearing billet cams, relocated lifter bores, etc. Integrity in stock is looooooong gone.

All of that is EXACTLY why Stock has become so prohibitively expensive. So, your solution is to make all of that legal, that way we can move on to something else that we can make legal because NHRA doesn't want to look for it? And that is your plan to "save" Stock? Seriously? You cannot "save" Stock by making Stock into something else.

12-20-2009, 08:32 AM	#1
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Index Change [QUOTE=Dion Hildebrandt; How does the nhra figure they are going to get new (young) blood excited about class racing when the current crop of drivers are questioning if it is even worth it to compete themselves? [/QUOTE] In case you havent figured it out.......NHRA dosent care. Its all about the SHOW (Circus Acts).

12-20-2009, 09:39 AM	#2
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Index Change Terry: That's really not a bad idea. Buy the end of 2010, even with the new index, All the Big Engine Mustangs, convertibles included, and the Big Engine Challengers should be AA cars or SuperStock only. (As they should be) It'll be interesting to see how the new smaller engine combo's of the purpose only built cars figure into the skeem of things. MAN, I can hear the whinning now!!! Maybe Stock Eliminator will be all Ford Mustangs and Dodge Challengers in every class...Now that would be fun to watch ... Spec Stock Eliminator Cars of the Future!! ... That's when I quit. JB

12-20-2009, 09:50 AM	#3
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Index Change Opps, sorry, wrong thread! JB

12-20-2009, 10:03 AM	#4
RJ Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 248 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Index Change The 2010 indexes are 1/2 second quicker than they were in 1976, squeezing out 5 tenths in last 34 years, about -.015 ET per year (especially with the liberalization of the rules) isn't much. Last edited by RJ; 12-20-2009 at 10:11 AM.

12-20-2009, 10:29 AM	#5
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,116 Likes: 1,573 Liked 1,830 Times in 415 Posts	Re: Index Change I'm still not seeing this as a way to bring young people to Stock and Super Stock. After a year of the new cars in Stock and Super Stock, how many are being fielded by young people new to the sport? None that I've seen. There are a few driven by the "'kids" of Stock or Super Stock racers, but those "kids" were likely to race in Stock or Super Stock anyway. Face facts. Stock and Super Stock are not cheap. That is one of the big reasons why we don't have new young people in the classes in large numbers. Young people can't afford it. And just because you bring in "new" cars that are just as expensive as "old" cars does not mean young people will suddenly be able to afford them. Take stock in reality. We are the bastard step children of NHRA. They don't REALLY want to save our classes. We're a heavy load on their tech department, especially at the track. Face it, we complain a lot (most often, with good reason). When we generate a decent car count, we take up a lot of space and a lot of time. NHRA keeps us around because we pay entry fees and buy crew passes. They keep us around because we pay membership fees and certification fees. They keep us around because we pay competition license and number fees. They keep us around because they take the lion's share of the contingency money posted for us. They keep us around because they make a killing off of stuff we buy at the track. NHRA doesn't love us, they don't want us, they don't really care about us, and they certainly are not concerned with "saving us". The "new" cars are here because NHRA can make an extra dollar or two (or more) from them. They're here because NHRA gets paid to have them here. NHRA isn't going to make rules, change rules, and make allowances for anything they aren't getting paid for, or saving money on. NHRA is not the "benevolent" "non profit" governing body it once was, long ago. It is a for profit corporation, and the board is driven by the bottom line and how they can improve it. I just do not see a bunch of twenty something or thirty something "new" racers showing up in these "new" cars in droves, or in any real numbers, to race Stock and Super Stock. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

12-20-2009, 10:48 AM	#6
CycloneFE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Decatur Illinois Posts: 634 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Index Change Stock is not necessarily the way to start Drag Racing, look at Don Garlits. Even with factory help he didn't even get in at Indy. He has really got to work as you guys say.

12-20-2009, 10:51 AM	#7
danny waters sr VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: lagrange,nc Posts: 2,224 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Index Change [/I] I agree Alan. The stocker world as we know it will die. However i do see the NEW generation of cars still hanging around after all us older gens begin to retire or just hang it up due to fustration or other reasons. Then this class of stock will look almost like the 10 &1/2 tire class except with a few diff rules. Almost all of the stock classes will be heads up due to the classes they fit in today. The simple solution "would" have been create a class for these new "stock" cars,that would not discourage the older muscle cars to just give up due to not being competive. At the present situation it is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Just my opinion and nothing against the new cars except they are classed wrong. Old stock as we knew it is on its way out and that is very sad. __________________ Danny Waters, Sr / 73 Duster "340"

12-20-2009, 11:04 AM	#8
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,116 Likes: 1,573 Liked 1,830 Times in 415 Posts	Re: Index Change Danny, the old style class racing will only die if we let NHRA kill it. Before NHRA kills itself. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S