Index Change

Casey Miles · 12-18-2009, 03:33 PM

WOW!! Now I can run all out and not worry about getting too far up the qualifing sheet. LOL!!!

Charley Downing · 12-18-2009, 03:42 PM

What about class winners do they still need to run -.50 under to win class?

Bob Don · 12-18-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

What about class winners do they still need to run -.50 under to win class?

I was thinking the same thing. With the lowered indexes, they should dump that rule.

west coast · 12-18-2009, 04:15 PM

I was reading too much into it. Greg is right. Div. and opens only count if you go fast enough for instant hp. 1.25 under the new indexes.

art leong · 12-18-2009, 04:33 PM

The way I see it . The fast guys have another .15 to play with. And the people that could just barely run the index, might have trouble in bad air.
But when you think about it taking a second under to get in the program, in the past.
It really doesn't change much
Personally I like the change

Greg Hill · 12-18-2009, 04:37 PM

Mickey, all the combinations like the 396's the LT1's the LS1's have high hp ratings while the newer combos will never get hit. I don't really have a problem with the new rules if the combinations are fairly factored. The way it is now is a joke. I can't even run fast enough in my car to get looked at now,and I've got a decent car.

Toby Lang · 12-18-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

Mickey, all the combinations like the 396's the LT1's the LS1's have high hp ratings while the newer combos will never get hit. I don't really have a problem with the new rules if the combinations are fairly factored. The way it is now is a joke. I can't even run fast enough in my car to get looked at now,and I've got a decent car.

Greg,

It says in the very first paragraph of the announcement that they consulted with the Sportsman Racer Advisory Council before coming up with this change. Are you still a member of the council and is this what you advised them to do?

If I remember correctly the indexes were raised 2 tenths in the early 90s to increase participation. With this latest change it looks like they must have too much participation now and are looking to reduce it.

-Toby

The Hawk · 12-18-2009, 11:43 PM

Good point Toby. Something else that a lot of racers may not remember from back then though is that there were a few classes that only received .15 due to the performance of the cars in the classes at the time. I know T/SA and V/SA and one other missed out on the other .05 from back then. Does it matter now,not one bit? It`s all irrellevent,NHRA doesn`t care,they`ll do what they feel they need to to screw the "hobby" class racer. In a way I`m happy they did it.

Stock 608 · 12-18-2009, 11:46 PM

This is a huge blow to my program. I was about a -30 player before and ok with that. Now i will most likely not be able to even run the index. I don't have the money to make up the difference. So my car will not see much nhra action in 2010, just bracket racing. I may end up still going to pomona since i had planed on it, but thats about it. I understand why it was done, but its a hard deal for racers on a tight budget and who's cars are not fast enough anymore...

JRyan · 12-19-2009, 12:04 AM

Let me start this by saying my verdict is still out if I'm for or against the index change. On one hand it benefits my superstocker as it allows me a little more breathing room and on the other hand it makes it a little tougher on my low budget stocker I've been putting together. So with that being said.

I love it whenever the AHFS gets discussed with altitude corrections and the lack of understanding most have with how the altitude correction actually works. By the way we've said for the last ten years the altitude correction factors are probably off about 10% because you can somewhat cheat the car into going faster by making changes to compensate. When we used to run at Denver alot we'd change camshafts, converter, rear gear, transmission, tires, and jetting to run fast. So everyone that thinks it's so easy to just go to the mountain and go fast I'd invite you to load up in July and give it a shot.

Someone mentioned 1.25 under at altitude is the same as sea level. This statement is absolutely false. I'll give you an example. Oahe Speedway in Pierre SD is 1700' above sea level in SS/NA I get .24 correction. So my index there is now a 12.39 with my old index being a 12.69. This year at the National Open I went an actual 11.238. Under the new system this would be 1.152 that would equate to a 10.998. However, this is not what it factors to. That run is actually an 11.023. This is how records get figured at altitude. At Denver you lose close to a .10 at this speed. So lets say next year I run an 11.14 and reset the record. This would be 1.25 under should I automatically get HP even though the record is only going to be 1.23 under? So is 1.25 under at altitude still 1.25 under at sea level? According to NHRA's policy for setting records NO!

Also you can't use corrected altitude to figure factoring either. 1500' at Atco and 1500' in Pierre SD as an example are two completely different things. At one place you might get that air and it's cool and dense and the other it may be a little warmer and drier. The car isn't going to run the same nor is it necessarily going to take the same tune to run at either place.

My .02
Rick Ryan

12-18-2009, 03:33 PM	#1
Casey Miles Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 703 Likes: 127 Liked 488 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Index Change WOW!! Now I can run all out and not worry about getting too far up the qualifing sheet. LOL!!!

12-18-2009, 03:42 PM	#2
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Index Change What about class winners do they still need to run -.50 under to win class? __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK

12-18-2009, 04:15 PM	#4
west coast Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Rainy Washington Posts: 609 Likes: 12 Liked 223 Times in 73 Posts	Re: Index Change I was reading too much into it. Greg is right. Div. and opens only count if you go fast enough for instant hp. 1.25 under the new indexes.

12-18-2009, 04:33 PM	#5
art leong VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Richmond Hill, Georgia Posts: 2,003 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Index Change The way I see it . The fast guys have another .15 to play with. And the people that could just barely run the index, might have trouble in bad air. But when you think about it taking a second under to get in the program, in the past. It really doesn't change much Personally I like the change __________________ Art Leong 2095 SS

12-18-2009, 04:37 PM	#6
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Index Change Mickey, all the combinations like the 396's the LT1's the LS1's have high hp ratings while the newer combos will never get hit. I don't really have a problem with the new rules if the combinations are fairly factored. The way it is now is a joke. I can't even run fast enough in my car to get looked at now,and I've got a decent car. __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

12-18-2009, 11:43 PM	#8
The Hawk VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Littleton,Colorado Posts: 1,194 Likes: 0 Liked 249 Times in 109 Posts	Re: Index Change Good point Toby. Something else that a lot of racers may not remember from back then though is that there were a few classes that only received .15 due to the performance of the cars in the classes at the time. I know T/SA and V/SA and one other missed out on the other .05 from back then. Does it matter now,not one bit? It`s all irrellevent,NHRA doesn`t care,they`ll do what they feel they need to to screw the "hobby" class racer. In a way I`m happy they did it. __________________ Lane Weber It`s Not What You Drive That Wins....It`s How You Drive It Last edited by The Hawk; 12-19-2009 at 12:01 AM.

12-18-2009, 11:46 PM	#9
Stock 608 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: D6 Posts: 33 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Index Change This is a huge blow to my program. I was about a -30 player before and ok with that. Now i will most likely not be able to even run the index. I don't have the money to make up the difference. So my car will not see much nhra action in 2010, just bracket racing. I may end up still going to pomona since i had planed on it, but thats about it. I understand why it was done, but its a hard deal for racers on a tight budget and who's cars are not fast enough anymore...

12-19-2009, 12:04 AM	#10
JRyan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aberdeen SD Posts: 645 Likes: 30 Liked 112 Times in 31 Posts	Re: Index Change Let me start this by saying my verdict is still out if I'm for or against the index change. On one hand it benefits my superstocker as it allows me a little more breathing room and on the other hand it makes it a little tougher on my low budget stocker I've been putting together. So with that being said. I love it whenever the AHFS gets discussed with altitude corrections and the lack of understanding most have with how the altitude correction actually works. By the way we've said for the last ten years the altitude correction factors are probably off about 10% because you can somewhat cheat the car into going faster by making changes to compensate. When we used to run at Denver alot we'd change camshafts, converter, rear gear, transmission, tires, and jetting to run fast. So everyone that thinks it's so easy to just go to the mountain and go fast I'd invite you to load up in July and give it a shot. Someone mentioned 1.25 under at altitude is the same as sea level. This statement is absolutely false. I'll give you an example. Oahe Speedway in Pierre SD is 1700' above sea level in SS/NA I get .24 correction. So my index there is now a 12.39 with my old index being a 12.69. This year at the National Open I went an actual 11.238. Under the new system this would be 1.152 that would equate to a 10.998. However, this is not what it factors to. That run is actually an 11.023. This is how records get figured at altitude. At Denver you lose close to a .10 at this speed. So lets say next year I run an 11.14 and reset the record. This would be 1.25 under should I automatically get HP even though the record is only going to be 1.23 under? So is 1.25 under at altitude still 1.25 under at sea level? According to NHRA's policy for setting records NO! Also you can't use corrected altitude to figure factoring either. 1500' at Atco and 1500' in Pierre SD as an example are two completely different things. At one place you might get that air and it's cool and dense and the other it may be a little warmer and drier. The car isn't going to run the same nor is it necessarily going to take the same tune to run at either place. My .02 Rick Ryan