Black Tuesday?

[tranzbuilder]

WOW thats alot of reading and opinions, the unfortunate part is not one of those opinions matters to the powers that be.I personally believe that changing index's has more to do with the lack of employee's at 91741 than you guy's think, extra work means more $ that they have to pay somebody. it doesn't make any difference whether they change the indexe's .3th's. the racer's that are fast now are going to be fast tomorow no matter what year it is. there is nothing at all wrong with the racer's who want to sandbag maybe they can't afford to spend the money that some people spend AND THEN COME'S THE RACER WITH THE KNOWLEDGE TO BE ABLE TO DO ALL HIS OWN STUFF and he works and test all the time on his race car they shouldn't be punished either. whether it's your hand's or your wallet that made that combo 1.3+ under it doesn't matter to me. let's just race sandbaggin or not if we all put as much effort into are race car's as we did complaining about the powers that be we would probably find at least another tenth. that's what i was doing yesterday! as far as stocker's running s/s get grade point's or QUIT CRYING WHO CARES WERE ALL EQAUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[larry dowty]

SEAN does spending my hard earned money on new heads from the sorensons bros. count as performance parts ??

[bsa633]

The coin always have 2 sides,what will drive some away might attract others..these classes could become more popular amongs racers in other categorys...good or bad..... I think it's a good move..but are a little afraid that those who has been good protecting there combos may have a good headstart that will be good for a couple of years if "the powers" dont get it right with the HPchanges before this new numbers comes into effect...well..if they do!

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by larry dowty

SEAN does spending my hard earned money on new heads from the sorensons bros. count as performance parts ??

Why of course it does Larry.... and money well spent!

Sean

[John Stock]

Bryan,

Did you just call me crazy? Was it crazy = good or just crazy = nuts. Everybody who runs Stock or Super Stock is probably a little of both.

Merry Christmas, hope to see you guys again before so long.

[Mike Carr]

While I think most, if not everyone, can agree that the Indexes are soft, I don't know if an across-the-board three tenths is fair either. 9.30 SS/AM is already a fairly stiff Index. So is 9.60 for a SS/AH. Neither class, in normal air (not couting super condition races like Boise, Atco, Dutch Classic, etc) wouldn't even come close to seeing a top 10 qualifying spot. It would take time and effort (maybe and probably too much time and effort on NHRA's part) to analyze all the classes, see which classes have been qualifying near the top the most, and adjust from there. Meaning, for example, take the 10 or whatever classes that, on average, take the majority of the top 10-20 qualifying spots (just as an example, B/SA, C/SA, J/SA, etc), and adjust them three tenths. Maybe adjust some classes .25, some classes .20, etc. The only exception(s) would be one "odd" car in a class. Meaning, if it was me, in a rare, one-of-a-kind combination car that qualifies #1 several times in, say, R/SA, just hit me with HP, as I would not be an indication that R/SA, as a whole class, is soft, if no other R/SA's anywhere qualified in the top 10 at any race. Or, if one class is at the top a lot, but most or all the cars in that class run the same combination (just as an example, 396/375 Camaro in B, 305 GM in K/SA, etc). If all the cars in the top spots, in that "fast" class, are the same engine and few or no other combinations in that class are near the top, adjust that single engine, rather then penalizing the whole class that may have combinations that can not qualify near the top. Again though, it would be a lot of work to do all that. Billy, this might have been where you were going with your "selective Index change".

There are just so many what-if's with adjusting Indexes and triggers, and so many differing opinions (as have been stated already in this thread) on what NHRA will/should do. If you were to lower the Indexes and leave the -1.15 and -1.40 triggers in place, the soft combos can run even more rampant with less fear of getting hit, as what was -1.40 before would be -1.60 under the old Index (if they reduce the Indexes two tenths), and cars can run just as fast, or faster than before with no penalty. The good side is, it could encourage more all-out racing in Class and less sandbagging. If you lower the Indexes and triggers equally (Indexes down two tenths, and triggers to -.95 and -1.20), then you have the same problem as now, sandbagging and manipulating the the AHFS. I'm not one to question or complain about a problem or perceived problem unless I have an opinion or answer on how to fix it, but I don't really see any glaring, obvious fix to this problem, if it is indeed a problem at all, that would be the most fair to the majority of racers.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr;

I'm not one to question or complain about a problem or perceived problem unless I have an opinion or answer on how to fix it, but I don't really see any glaring, obvious fix to this problem

Buff, I feel that the majority of racers probably feel the same way you do. That being said, then NHRA should either poll all of its racers, leave the program alone, or REALLY shake the cage. All they are doing now is catering to a very few.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

While I think most, if not everyone, can agree that the Indexes are soft, I don't know if an across-the-board three tenths is fair either.

Ding, ding! You can really see some wacky stuff when you look at something like my DF/S Turismo, which to date has run -.640 under. In IHRA the engine is only rated 2hp different, but they still have all of the "old" NHRA front-drive classes, where it has run -1.040 under in FF/SA. Would it really make sense for there to be .70 difference between sanctions with the same combination? Maybe there are some indexes out there that "need" hit, but in my opinion the problem lies in HP factors. I don't think it makes sense to paint the indexes with a broad brush (or a wide scythe). And for the first guy to ask "Why should FWD be any exception?" I'd say, "Fine, let's see you go to full-pound weight breaks." There's a 654lb. difference between classes for my combo. Does this make sense to anyone?

- Re: Stockers running -.80 under in Super Stock.... so factor those combinations properly! I ran a Stocker in Super Stock in 2008 that happens to be a bloody fast Stocker, and it typically ran -.15 under in SS. Not -.80 under. Refer to the broad brush, above.

- Re: moving indexes even more... .80? Why not whack them 1.40? Then it'll be just like Comp. Congratulations. Or is it only okay to move the indexes just far enough so that a given individual can run under anywhere, and it's only those lazy SOB's that are slower than "that" guy that need to "work harder"?

- As King Ed mentioned earlier, if they whack .30 across the board, you'll have to run what is currently -.80 under just to "earn" a Class trophy on a single, and presumably to set a Record that's currently at Minimum as well.

- Plus anything Toby said.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by tranzbuilder

WOW thats alot of reading and opinions, the unfortunate part is not one of those opinions matters to the powers that be.I personally believe that changing index's has more to do with the lack of employee's at 91741 than you guy's think, extra work means more $ that they have to pay somebody. it doesn't make any difference whether they change the indexe's .3th's. the racer's that are fast now are going to be fast tomorow no matter what year it is. there is nothing at all wrong with the racer's who want to sandbag maybe they can't afford to spend the money that some people spend AND THEN COME'S THE RACER WITH THE KNOWLEDGE TO BE ABLE TO DO ALL HIS OWN STUFF and he works and test all the time on his race car they shouldn't be punished either. whether it's your hand's or your wallet that made that combo 1.3+ under it doesn't matter to me. let's just race sandbaggin or not if we all put as much effort into are race car's as we did complaining about the powers that be we would probably find at least another tenth. that's what i was doing yesterday! as far as stocker's running s/s get grade point's or QUIT CRYING WHO CARES WERE ALL EQAUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have a great point. At the PRI show nhra only had 4 people there Bruce was not there, nor was Jim Collins from Division 2. nhra seems to have screwed up their own afhs this year was it because of mathematical problems. Is it because they are cutting back?
If it is our days are numbered. Notice no class racing at all in Gainesville A race that has been important to stock and superstock racers for years. Is this a trail run for what is in the future?
Why does anyone want to see the index's hit? So they can go faster and still protect their index? Or to get rid of some of the competition? I recently took the tenth and a half hit, So I'll have to work a little harder if I want to be number 1. Other than that it doesn't mean a hill of beans. A car that can run 1.40 under is going to qualify with a 1.25 under anywhere just not as high on the ladder.