questions concerning christmas tree

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by BobOrme

The inequity is in first or worst. The current rules don't allow for a worst concerning a red light (unless the quicker car leaves before the tree is activated), therefore the slower dial-in car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

You can just as easily make the case that the faster car does not get a clean tree, and has to wait on the line longer, therefore the faster car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

You can just as easily make the case that the faster car does not get a clean tree, and has to wait on the line longer, therefore the faster car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

Alan, you are correct. The slower class drivers don't have to deal with that, if they did they might have a different take on it. Besides the "dirty" tree, the other car leaving is a distraction. I'm about in the middle, I have to give some one second + spots, and get some one second + spots from the hood scoop SS cars. I much prefer leaving first so I have no distractions from the other side of the tree (especially at night) or the other car leaving. I now use a blinder to block the other side of the tree, but the other car moving still bothers me. Maybe the slow guys don't have to deal with that, so only see their side of the deal. I talked to Gary Stinnett at Ennis about him taking his blinders back off, and he said the same things about the other car leaving while watching your own side of the tree. I feel like the first/worst rule balances it out a little. Even though it takes away any control of the finish line, I like to leave first without the distractions. Change that rule, and I will REALLY like leaving first.

__________________________________________________ _____
Michael Beard said: Um, me, I'm afraid... More than once I've been backing into guys at the stripe, get my timeslip, and discover they were red. Granted it's only been at one certain track where the win lights are hard to see, and 1/8th mile racing, where you don't have all day to look around while you're motoring down the track. Good practice anyway... right?

Since going to blinders I have done that. More than one track. After doing that a couple fo times I've started trying to remember to check the score board for a win light when the front end comes back down, so maybe I will look a little less silly. Only a little less.

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

You can just as easily make the case that the faster car does not get a clean tree, and has to wait on the line longer, therefore the faster car is at a disadvantage at the tree.

If your contentration is so bad that you need a "clean" tree then you can build a slower car !!
Or they can put blinders the tree......
The "clean tree" BS is so lame...........you need to work on your concentration !!!

[bill dedman]

The fact is, you cannot "legislate" rules to give an advantage to this car, or that car. The reason is, there is no way to quantify the advantage/disadvantage, so how do you know when it is "enough"????

It's easy to say, "Leaving on a clean tree is an advantage," and that may be true, but how about driving the stripe from behind, or owning a fast car that is unaffected by minor weather/wind changes that affect a slow car a lot, making it hard to dial in changing conditions; fast cars spin the tires; slow cars are usually inconsistent...
There is no end to this stuff.... and, trying to level the playing field by giving out advantages, is a lost cause; you'll never get it right.

A worse red light rule gives the advantage to NOBODY.

That's a big improvement over what we have now, it would seem to me.

[Bunkster]

Were the rules being written today, for the first time, with the current technology that is available, there is simply no way… NO WAY… this “first red light” thing would have even been considered.

Bob Glidden and Lee Sheppard never had to deal with this. Don Garlits and Joe Amato never had to deal with this. All of these people were always presented with an EQUAL opportunity at the tree.

Cutting a light….tearing down the tree…is a FUNDAMENTAL of this sport. That some races are not subjected to this same, basic standard, is simply unimaginable.

The chorus of “…been that way since day one and it should not be changed…” is just about as twisted as saying that slavery, since it was legal, should still be allowed.

NHRA and IHRA…..if you are reading this, go to a “worst” red light system now. Do not take a survey. Do not ask of people’s opinions. Do not announce when you are going to start doing it. You know you have the software in place to do this, so just do it.

All I ask, is that when you start doing it, publish the complaints, anonymously, of the few that will find this unfair: THAT will make for some humorous entertainment.

[bill dedman]

Ed said, Mr Dedman,you know what you can do with that "pole".

OK, Ed; it was your idea, not mine...

Bend over...

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by John Kelley

If your contentration is so bad that you need a "clean" tree then you can build a slower car !!
Or they can put blinders the tree......
The "clean tree" BS is so lame...........you need to work on your concentration !!!

The lame BS arguments abound here, Mr. Kelley. I never claimed to be a great driver. I certainly need to work on my concentration.

I can just as easily say if you're so worried about going red first, you need to build a faster car.

See how the smart *** comments work? I can sling them all day with the best of them.

[bill dedman]

But, Alan; with the worse red light system, there would no longer be a reason to build a different car, just to get away from the built-in inequity of this one.

That's the point...

Are you still working on finding the "other side of that coin"??? Or, have you given up?

It's hard to defend the indefensible...

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

But, Alan; with the worse red light system, there would no longer be a reason to build a different car, just to get away from the built-in inequity of this one.

That's the point...

Are you still working on finding the "other side of that coin"??? Or, have you given up?

It's hard to defend the indefensible...

Bill, it doesn't matter what anyone says. You want the rule changed, and nothing else will satisfy you.

[K Stubbs]

I personally do not think that putting blinders on the last two lights will help anyone win races. I have never used a blinder and probably wont ( never say never), however, a lot of people do and are successful with them. As far as the "red light" rule it works fine like it is, like someone said, " I never complain about losing when I redlight". We have a great system that has worked for many years and they have made effective changes like going from five ambers to three and giving us reaction times, which they used to not do. Usually if someone is struggling with reaction times its not the trees fault. I do agree that a background of some sort would be helpful if the sunlight is facing you, at least large enough to cover the back of the tree, allowing you to get a good look at all of the ambers without the sun interfering.