To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk

427_ED · 09-08-2009, 06:07 PM

I think the Challengers and Cobra Jets are capable of 9.70's in A/SA right now. Probably capable of 9.80's in B/SA. They're holding them back, saving the combination.

Rich Biebel · 09-08-2009, 06:28 PM

For those not old enough to recall the old stock eliminator.....you were handicapped off the national records. Class winners and low qualifiers made up the eliminator field. Many racers could run under their records and some cars could really bomb the records but usually did not unless there was an eliminator title on the line Yes records counted during big races for a while if it was a final. Setting a record counted for division points......ET or Mph and seperately at one time. People used to just "nip" their record to get the points. Rules were often different at various tracks and events. Some tracks raced under the rules that you could not go under your record by more than a tenth and win except the final.....or even 2 tenths......All this needed changing and the index system was a real good way to do it. It just has not been upraded with the cars performane of today and the AHFS seems like it was a good attempt at evening out the cars that were way off HP wise.....It appears to be causing the class to look foolish with all the shutting off runs at times at a fast race like Indy just was.

No I don't race a stocker anymore but I am an interested observer and have raced a few stockers over the years...,,,and still enjoy watching the category and the cars......

LilBlueDeuce · 09-08-2009, 08:09 PM

Bill...that is what I meant. Thanks for the correction. I am 0 for 2 today.

Rich...thanks for the further explanation of how things used to be. It sounds like even back then, sandbagging was a part of class racing.

I still love watching Stock and SuperStock. It is just more fun watching them run out the back door.

bill dedman · 09-08-2009, 09:28 PM

No problem... I love those '32 Fords....

Mike Voth · 09-09-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 427_ED

I think the Challengers and Cobra Jets are capable of 9.70's in A/SA right now. Probably capable of 9.80's in B/SA. They're holding them back, saving the combination.

From what I've been told, maybe 9.40's or .50's.

I would love to see what the AA/ combo would run...juuuuuuust once.

Evan Smith · 09-09-2009, 10:39 AM

Mike,

Probably 8.90s!

Ryan Horensky · 09-09-2009, 01:38 PM

Mr. Tree Savoy,

Being you have been around since 1964 I'm very glad you have been able to experience heads up type racing. I myself enjoy class eliminations and heads up races. I'm a big fan of Pro Stock and other heads-up classes.If you actually knew me and my family like some others do on this site you would realize that we do race our cars hard. I myself have never dumped at a race to avoid getting a penalty. My father managed to get the steel head cobra jets 5 horsepower back in 2003 because of infractions during extreme conditions at Englishtown during the National Event. I wish we had that 5 horsepower back right now, being we got horsepower with weather conditions so good that we haven't seen them since that race. I would love to know what type of stock/super stock car you have raced? If you were a true stock/super stock racer I don't think you would be calling our form of racing total BS. Our horsepower system isn't perfect, that's for sure. But combinations also cannot be factored out of existence like they once were by the swipe of a pen.I do not recall the class every being a first one to the finish line wins type of class with the execption of class eliminations and heads-up races. I think that's why top stock was invented......so the upper class cars could go after each other heads up? Even when guys were racing off the records if they went under the record it was considered a breakout like today's dial in system to the best of my knowledge. If you don't like the fact that stock/super stock is basically a bracket race aside from heads-up runs and qualifying.....there's nothing written in stone that says you have to watch these classes race at all. If you wanna talk about this just send me an email at ryanhorensky@yahoo.com or send me a personal message on here and I'd be glad to talk to you about what's pissing you off about our class and form of racing.

Ryan Horensky
1273 C/SA

Evan Smith · 09-09-2009, 02:21 PM

Well stated Ryan. I love those who bash S/SS racing and say the "old days" was so much better. I'm sure it was great when there was only a handful of combinations and the cars were near-stock. But we didn't get a chance to experience it and for us younger crowd, racing is different. Times were simpler in the '60s, but you can't turn back the clock. Today's Stockers are heavily modified and cost a great deal of money and time to prepare and no one in there right mind would ruin a combination for no apparent reason (OK, there are a few exceptions). Nevertheless, many take great pride in having a fast car. You just have to be smart about when you cut it loose.

Drag racing, like all things, has evolved over time and the current format allows for heads-up action and bracket racing. If Stock were all heads-up there would be 10-50 cars out there and it would be nothing but a rich-man's game (as if it's not already one). I'd be willing to bet that all the guys who are against technology (and by that I mean all he advancements over the years in the cam department, valvesprings, EFI, transmissions, brakes, tires, etc.), don't watch a black & white TV, have a daily driver with a carburetor and points, have no microwave oven, Internet, cable TV, etc. In other words, it's OK to enjoy modern technology, as long as it's not on the racetrack, right?

An all-heads-up format would be fine if we raced cars that were 99-percent Stock and had loads of teardowns to ensure legality. Under those circumstances winning or losing came down (and would still) come down to driver skill and minor tuning.

Evan

Bob Pagano · 09-09-2009, 02:23 PM

Ryan, You were allowed to run 1/10 under back in the day. Jim has been around and dose have a 64 Max Wedge car.

j gardiner · 09-09-2009, 02:31 PM

If you are not smart enough to protect your combination, you were probably not smart enough to make it run fast to begin with.

09-08-2009, 06:07 PM	#1
427_ED Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Nicholasville, KY Posts: 265 Likes: 54 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk I think the Challengers and Cobra Jets are capable of 9.70's in A/SA right now. Probably capable of 9.80's in B/SA. They're holding them back, saving the combination.

09-08-2009, 06:28 PM	#2
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,314 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk For those not old enough to recall the old stock eliminator.....you were handicapped off the national records. Class winners and low qualifiers made up the eliminator field. Many racers could run under their records and some cars could really bomb the records but usually did not unless there was an eliminator title on the line Yes records counted during big races for a while if it was a final. Setting a record counted for division points......ET or Mph and seperately at one time. People used to just "nip" their record to get the points. Rules were often different at various tracks and events. Some tracks raced under the rules that you could not go under your record by more than a tenth and win except the final.....or even 2 tenths......All this needed changing and the index system was a real good way to do it. It just has not been upraded with the cars performane of today and the AHFS seems like it was a good attempt at evening out the cars that were way off HP wise.....It appears to be causing the class to look foolish with all the shutting off runs at times at a fast race like Indy just was. No I don't race a stocker anymore but I am an interested observer and have raced a few stockers over the years...,,,and still enjoy watching the category and the cars...... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R

09-08-2009, 08:09 PM	#3
LilBlueDeuce Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk Bill...that is what I meant. Thanks for the correction. I am 0 for 2 today. Rich...thanks for the further explanation of how things used to be. It sounds like even back then, sandbagging was a part of class racing. I still love watching Stock and SuperStock. It is just more fun watching them run out the back door.

09-08-2009, 09:28 PM	#4
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk No problem... I love those '32 Fords.... __________________ Bill

09-09-2009, 10:39 AM	#6
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk Mike, Probably 8.90s! __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

09-09-2009, 01:38 PM	#7
Ryan Horensky Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sugarloaf,PA Posts: 201 Likes: 19 Liked 109 Times in 18 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk Mr. Tree Savoy, Being you have been around since 1964 I'm very glad you have been able to experience heads up type racing. I myself enjoy class eliminations and heads up races. I'm a big fan of Pro Stock and other heads-up classes.If you actually knew me and my family like some others do on this site you would realize that we do race our cars hard. I myself have never dumped at a race to avoid getting a penalty. My father managed to get the steel head cobra jets 5 horsepower back in 2003 because of infractions during extreme conditions at Englishtown during the National Event. I wish we had that 5 horsepower back right now, being we got horsepower with weather conditions so good that we haven't seen them since that race. I would love to know what type of stock/super stock car you have raced? If you were a true stock/super stock racer I don't think you would be calling our form of racing total BS. Our horsepower system isn't perfect, that's for sure. But combinations also cannot be factored out of existence like they once were by the swipe of a pen.I do not recall the class every being a first one to the finish line wins type of class with the execption of class eliminations and heads-up races. I think that's why top stock was invented......so the upper class cars could go after each other heads up? Even when guys were racing off the records if they went under the record it was considered a breakout like today's dial in system to the best of my knowledge. If you don't like the fact that stock/super stock is basically a bracket race aside from heads-up runs and qualifying.....there's nothing written in stone that says you have to watch these classes race at all. If you wanna talk about this just send me an email at ryanhorensky@yahoo.com or send me a personal message on here and I'd be glad to talk to you about what's pissing you off about our class and form of racing. Ryan Horensky 1273 C/SA

09-09-2009, 02:21 PM	#8
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk Well stated Ryan. I love those who bash S/SS racing and say the "old days" was so much better. I'm sure it was great when there was only a handful of combinations and the cars were near-stock. But we didn't get a chance to experience it and for us younger crowd, racing is different. Times were simpler in the '60s, but you can't turn back the clock. Today's Stockers are heavily modified and cost a great deal of money and time to prepare and no one in there right mind would ruin a combination for no apparent reason (OK, there are a few exceptions). Nevertheless, many take great pride in having a fast car. You just have to be smart about when you cut it loose. Drag racing, like all things, has evolved over time and the current format allows for heads-up action and bracket racing. If Stock were all heads-up there would be 10-50 cars out there and it would be nothing but a rich-man's game (as if it's not already one). I'd be willing to bet that all the guys who are against technology (and by that I mean all he advancements over the years in the cam department, valvesprings, EFI, transmissions, brakes, tires, etc.), don't watch a black & white TV, have a daily driver with a carburetor and points, have no microwave oven, Internet, cable TV, etc. In other words, it's OK to enjoy modern technology, as long as it's not on the racetrack, right? An all-heads-up format would be fine if we raced cars that were 99-percent Stock and had loads of teardowns to ensure legality. Under those circumstances winning or losing came down (and would still) come down to driver skill and minor tuning. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK Last edited by Evan Smith; 09-09-2009 at 03:31 PM.

09-09-2009, 02:23 PM	#9
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 241 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk Ryan, You were allowed to run 1/10 under back in the day. Jim has been around and dose have a 64 Max Wedge car. __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA

09-09-2009, 02:31 PM	#10
j gardiner Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: waldorf Posts: 221 Likes: 14 Liked 55 Times in 29 Posts	Re: To: Austin Ford From: Bill Hawk If you are not smart enough to protect your combination, you were probably not smart enough to make it run fast to begin with.