S/g 1983

Ed Fernandez · 07-28-2009, 10:00 PM

I made this post on the S/SS.Not many replys.I guess my opinoins and comments aren't appreciated there,like I real give a flying flock.
The question here is after looking at the way they did it then how many of you would like to go back to that style of .90 racing.Seems to me the costs would be less and after an adjustment period I think the racing would be real tight at the stripe.The fans might just enjoy it more than the present system.
I'm sure the equiptment sponsors wouldn't be too happy about it though.

Rich Biebel · 07-29-2009, 05:42 AM

Ed....in 1983 S/G was just getting started. They allowed Deep Staging....people raced thru or even around the water to get to the starting line so they could stage first and the second guy in usually lost......It was another year or two before they had that all fixed. I ran some S/ST events in that era. Deep Staging was allowed and we used a .4 tree the first year at the events around here. Racing was close after the Deep Staging was eliminated and for most of the way down the track cars were side by side. T-Stop timers are what allowed the present evolution of the Super classes. They appeared in the late 80's or early '90's and I don't think they could ever be eliminated now.......

BKSG1198 · 07-29-2009, 06:28 AM

I think all the Super Classes have been too modified since the beginning and people have WAY too much money invested in their equipment to go back to the beginning. It's all about going 175mph at 9.90 and trying to wheel race the slow guy at 145. I know back in early IHRA Super Rod racing you were allowed to use Nitrous in your car incase it couldn't run 9.90. Oh well I go 111 to 117 mph - COME AND GET ME and you try to judge the stripe that way!!

X-TECH MAN · 07-29-2009, 07:04 AM

Its like every other class....NHRA (and IHRA) let it get out of hand when all it would have taken was a list of rules and stick to them. .90 racing was pretty cool in the beginning except for the deep staging. Now all of the electronics and large expensive engines have ruined it for the guy on a budget. Oh well it was a good idea in the beginning.

Bill Baer · 07-29-2009, 10:17 AM

Having been a .90 racer for more than twenty years I agree that the racing was better and less expensive before adjustable/electronic throttle stops. (We were essentially side-by-side). But nothing is constant except change and cash makes the world go round. The allowance of these devices have help support the aftermarket manufactures which produce the parts needed for these “Big Engines” and these manufactures in turn sponsor the sanction bodies so they both benefit from the current rules and are not going to change them.
While there are a couple of tactical advantages to being a faster (high MPH) car I still have friends/competitors who have some success running lower budget (lower MPH) cars I don’t agree that the current rules and technology have “Ruined it for the guy on a budget” I would agree that it has placed them at a disadvantage but they still can and do occasionally win. When I compare the cost of racing a comp eliminator, top sportsman or top dragster class, I still consider super class racing the “best bang for the buck”. Since I’m still doing it, I still think it’s still a good idea and represents good competitive racing that I can afford to do.

Chris Williams · 07-29-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Baer

While there are a couple of tactical advantages to being a faster (high MPH) car I still have friends/competitors who have some success running lower budget (lower MPH) cars I don’t agree that the current rules and technology have “Ruined it for the guy on a budget” I would agree that it has placed them at a disadvantage but they still can and do occasionally win. When I compare the cost of racing a comp eliminator, top sportsman or top dragster class, I still consider super class racing the “best bang for the buck”. Since I’m still doing it, I still think it’s still a good idea and represents good competitive racing that I can afford to do.

I agree completely, Bill. You can be competitive in the .90 classes without going over 175mph, and without spending $100k on an engine. You just have to put in the time, practice, and energy into being able to build outstanding packages. If you can consistently put together packages under .020 or so, you don't have to play the finish line games -- just keep the pedal matted, and shout "come and get me". All it takes is several thousand hits on a practice tree, and enough passes to know how your combination is effected by the weather and the track. The big key to .90 racing is between your ears, not between the framerails or between the pages of your bank statement. We love it.

ItsyBitsySpider · 07-29-2009, 11:06 AM

I liked X-Tech Man's post under Stock/Super Stock.

" NOT allow any electronics at all. No deep staging, .5 tenths trees in all 3 classes to equal different weight and styles of cars, build the engine and car to run the number to see how many "Jump Ship" and try racing the way it used to be with just a "bolt stop" for the throttle.. Its called DRIVER SKILL not robotics."

I have 24 years experience racing both with and without electronics. Most of it in the super classes.

I think a new association with no electronics would be a huge success right now.
Perhaps the crowds of spectators will return if drag racing gets back to it's roots and they can actually figure out what's going on?
(see the success of Pinks for an example)

I am so sick and tired of watching more and more electronics replace skill and raise the cost out of reach for many of us. $1395-$2400 for a delay box? Oh excuse me, it's a "Data Acquisition System". Get real!

There is about a 5% chance that I'll win the race without the latest greatest equipment. These are not good odds, my friends. How many of us spend the $500-600 it costs to compete in a Sportsman event with these odds? (I should play Lotto instead.)

Car counts are way down here in the Southeast, part is the economy and part is the fact that people are leaving the Super Class series. The folks I've talked to are not happy with the electronics. Especially the new dash units. A few have mentioned that they think some people are using these new electronic devices in an illegal manner. So why bother to waste your money and time trying to compete honestly?

I personally would support a non electronics sportsman series. Either that or I'm defecting to Stock/Super Stock or perhaps going back to Bracket Racing.

JJ3159 · 07-29-2009, 11:35 AM

.oo lights and .90s win races ,no matter what electronics you have ,the electronics don't drive the cars .high mph or slow mph you have to know car ,if you are bracket racing you can bet you will race faster cars.

supergas565 · 07-29-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ3159

.oo lights and .90s win races ,no matter what electronics you have ,the electronics don't drive the cars .high mph or slow mph you have to know car ,if you are bracket racing you can bet you will race faster cars.

Very well stated....totally agree.

63corvette · 07-29-2009, 02:40 PM

Last year NHRA posted a new rule for the Super Classes that you could not have any data pickups on the wheels or drive line components. The problem is no TECH OFFICIAL at any race I have attended has ever looked for one.
I thought this might clear out some of those who use the counter systems to detect where they were at et wise and whether to take the finish line or give it away.
I was wrong!!!
I know that is still going on with some racers using data going to the MSD system to stutter the ignition if they are to quick at a measured point on the track.
I have observed this at test sessions. When you hear an engine miss or stutter at 330, 660, and 1000 ft and still the car runs a 9.90-- you have a good feel something is being counted and controlled.
I continue to race but I know it is not a level playing field at some races.
Just My 2 Cents

07-28-2009, 10:00 PM	#1
Ed Fernandez Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NOO JOISEY nexta NOO YAWK Posts: 5,879 Likes: 38 Liked 100 Times in 45 Posts	S/g 1983 I made this post on the S/SS.Not many replys.I guess my opinoins and comments aren't appreciated there,like I real give a flying flock. The question here is after looking at the way they did it then how many of you would like to go back to that style of .90 racing.Seems to me the costs would be less and after an adjustment period I think the racing would be real tight at the stripe.The fans might just enjoy it more than the present system. I'm sure the equiptment sponsors wouldn't be too happy about it though. __________________ Former NHRA #1945 Former IHRA #1945 T/SA Last edited by Ed Fernandez; 07-28-2009 at 10:02 PM.

07-29-2009, 05:42 AM	#2
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,315 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: S/g 1983 Ed....in 1983 S/G was just getting started. They allowed Deep Staging....people raced thru or even around the water to get to the starting line so they could stage first and the second guy in usually lost......It was another year or two before they had that all fixed. I ran some S/ST events in that era. Deep Staging was allowed and we used a .4 tree the first year at the events around here. Racing was close after the Deep Staging was eliminated and for most of the way down the track cars were side by side. T-Stop timers are what allowed the present evolution of the Super classes. They appeared in the late 80's or early '90's and I don't think they could ever be eliminated now....... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R

07-29-2009, 06:28 AM	#3
BKSG1198 VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vineland, NJ Posts: 2,636 Likes: 96 Liked 1,290 Times in 394 Posts	Re: S/g 1983 I think all the Super Classes have been too modified since the beginning and people have WAY too much money invested in their equipment to go back to the beginning. It's all about going 175mph at 9.90 and trying to wheel race the slow guy at 145. I know back in early IHRA Super Rod racing you were allowed to use Nitrous in your car incase it couldn't run 9.90. Oh well I go 111 to 117 mph - COME AND GET ME and you try to judge the stripe that way!!

07-29-2009, 07:04 AM	#4
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: S/g 1983 Its like every other class....NHRA (and IHRA) let it get out of hand when all it would have taken was a list of rules and stick to them. .90 racing was pretty cool in the beginning except for the deep staging. Now all of the electronics and large expensive engines have ruined it for the guy on a budget. Oh well it was a good idea in the beginning.

07-29-2009, 10:17 AM	#5
Bill Baer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Nothern IL Posts: 596 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: S/g 1983 Having been a .90 racer for more than twenty years I agree that the racing was better and less expensive before adjustable/electronic throttle stops. (We were essentially side-by-side). But nothing is constant except change and cash makes the world go round. The allowance of these devices have help support the aftermarket manufactures which produce the parts needed for these “Big Engines” and these manufactures in turn sponsor the sanction bodies so they both benefit from the current rules and are not going to change them. While there are a couple of tactical advantages to being a faster (high MPH) car I still have friends/competitors who have some success running lower budget (lower MPH) cars I don’t agree that the current rules and technology have “Ruined it for the guy on a budget” I would agree that it has placed them at a disadvantage but they still can and do occasionally win. When I compare the cost of racing a comp eliminator, top sportsman or top dragster class, I still consider super class racing the “best bang for the buck”. Since I’m still doing it, I still think it’s still a good idea and represents good competitive racing that I can afford to do. __________________ Bill Baer 3391 SC, 339B SC, QR

07-29-2009, 11:06 AM	#7
ItsyBitsySpider Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida & NY Posts: 109 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: S/g 1983 I liked X-Tech Man's post under Stock/Super Stock. " NOT allow any electronics at all. No deep staging, .5 tenths trees in all 3 classes to equal different weight and styles of cars, build the engine and car to run the number to see how many "Jump Ship" and try racing the way it used to be with just a "bolt stop" for the throttle.. Its called DRIVER SKILL not robotics." I have 24 years experience racing both with and without electronics. Most of it in the super classes. I think a new association with no electronics would be a huge success right now. Perhaps the crowds of spectators will return if drag racing gets back to it's roots and they can actually figure out what's going on? (see the success of Pinks for an example) I am so sick and tired of watching more and more electronics replace skill and raise the cost out of reach for many of us. $1395-$2400 for a delay box? Oh excuse me, it's a "Data Acquisition System". Get real! There is about a 5% chance that I'll win the race without the latest greatest equipment. These are not good odds, my friends. How many of us spend the $500-600 it costs to compete in a Sportsman event with these odds? (I should play Lotto instead.) Car counts are way down here in the Southeast, part is the economy and part is the fact that people are leaving the Super Class series. The folks I've talked to are not happy with the electronics. Especially the new dash units. A few have mentioned that they think some people are using these new electronic devices in an illegal manner. So why bother to waste your money and time trying to compete honestly? I personally would support a non electronics sportsman series. Either that or I'm defecting to Stock/Super Stock or perhaps going back to Bracket Racing.

07-29-2009, 11:35 AM	#8
JJ3159 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: WEST SENECA N.Y. Posts: 140 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: S/g 1983 .oo lights and .90s win races ,no matter what electronics you have ,the electronics don't drive the cars .high mph or slow mph you have to know car ,if you are bracket racing you can bet you will race faster cars. __________________ jj h/r 1399 s/r 1399 s/g 1399

07-29-2009, 02:40 PM	#10
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 552 Likes: 128 Liked 359 Times in 103 Posts	Re: S/g 1983 Last year NHRA posted a new rule for the Super Classes that you could not have any data pickups on the wheels or drive line components. The problem is no TECH OFFICIAL at any race I have attended has ever looked for one. I thought this might clear out some of those who use the counter systems to detect where they were at et wise and whether to take the finish line or give it away. I was wrong!!! I know that is still going on with some racers using data going to the MSD system to stutter the ignition if they are to quick at a measured point on the track. I have observed this at test sessions. When you hear an engine miss or stutter at 330, 660, and 1000 ft and still the car runs a 9.90-- you have a good feel something is being counted and controlled. I continue to race but I know it is not a level playing field at some races. Just My 2 Cents