M.g.

bill dedman · 05-23-2009, 06:22 PM

What do I think?

I think you somehow missed my response to my friend S.E. Buchanan which said, in part,
"S.E., neither driver will see a red light until after BOTH CARS have left the line.

A red light will mean "you lose," and the computer won't know who has "lost" until it compares both lights. It has no way to know whether the second car to leave will have had a worse red light than the first (and thereby become the loser) until he leaves the line, so there's NO WAY this system will affect the concentration of the faster car's driver. He will always assume the other car had a green light until he's left the line and sees a red, if there IS one.

He will see what he's always seen when the first car to leave had a good green light. NO additional distraction...."

That is the way I've been told the software works.

Nothing else would be acceptable; you absolutely CANNOT have a red light coming on and distracting a driver who hasn't left, yet! Nobody should EVER have to put up with that!!!

Thanks for your thoughts, Gary.

Bill

treessavoy · 05-25-2009, 12:58 PM

Unscrew the red lights, disable the down-link to the scoreboard, and let them find out at the time booth who broke-out the most and was the winner, then the announcer can tell the crowd.

The second guy to leave deserves the "right" to lose by a worse red light.

GarysZ24 · 05-26-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dedman

What do I think?

I think you somehow missed my response to my friend S.E. Buchanan which said, in part,
"S.E., neither driver will see a red light until after BOTH CARS have left the line.

A red light will mean "you lose," and the computer won't know who has "lost" until it compares both lights. It has no way to know whether the second car to leave will have had a worse red light than the first (and thereby become the loser) until he leaves the line, so there's NO WAY this system will affect the concentration of the faster car's driver. He will always assume the other car had a green light until he's left the line and sees a red, if there IS one.

He will see what he's always seen when the first car to leave had a good green light. NO additional distraction...."

That is the way I've been told the software works.

Nothing else would be acceptable; you absolutely CANNOT have a red light coming on and distracting a driver who hasn't left, yet! Nobody should EVER have to put up with that!!!

Thanks for your thoughts, Gary.

Bill

Yeah Bill, I noticed that after I posted my (your thoughts, in my) comments....I'm glad we agree on this one, and I hope that the Stock/Super Stock rep will present this thought to the next meeting they have because I think (like you), that it should be the same as a breakout run between the faster/slower vehicles.

bill dedman · 05-27-2009, 12:06 AM

Ed said: "Bill,maybe I'm crazy but I see no reason to make things anymore complicated than they already are."

I agree; they're plenty complicated, now.

Having said that I must ask, in what way would this complicate ANYTHING insofar as what the driving experience is?

What would you do differently? What would a AA car do differently???

Tell me; I may be missing something here...

If racing, using this system is going to be more complicated, I'd like to know what about it complicates ANYTHING??????

I'm serious. Explain the "complication" to me, please.

Thanks for hanging in there and reading all that crap I wrote.... but, if you think that racing under this system is going to be ONE IOTA more complicated than what we have now, then ~I~ don't understand it, myself.... 'cause I sure can't see it.

What it be?????????

Bill

bill dedman · 05-27-2009, 12:14 AM

Gary,

Don't get your hopes up; this change would never, ever, net NHRA one red cent, and it would cost money for the changeover software, so I think it chances of its ever seeing the light of day are slim-to-none.

I've tried to get the racers on this board to support this idea for years, and I can't even get the guys with
S-L-O-W cars to agree that it's going to be beneficial, and they're the ones getting screwed the most with the current system.

Most of the racers who are against this idea, I am convinced, don't understand how it works.

I am sure that NHRA has no interest in making this change. It's such a simple idea; if they wanted it changed, it would have been changed years ago.

But, thanks for your interest and kind words.

Bill

Jack McCarthy · 05-27-2009, 09:30 AM

here's my .02 cents worth (and i should know)

i knew the rule when i chose my class / car (28 years ago)
i know i have a disadvantage on the redlight rule

i used to have advantage on class winner money ( until i was enhanced)
i now have another disadvantage on the line - two steps (some enhancement relief last year)

however... i still have advantages

i enjoy a good slick track, especially when paired with a-b-c radial car
i still spend less than an a--b-c car (but still way too much... enhance enhance enhance)
i never hit the wheelie bars and spin
i put up wiuth less assholes...the guys who race in o- w are a much nicer breed

captain
i agree with billy... lose the reaction times & incrementals

Tony Janes · 05-27-2009, 10:01 AM

I agree with Ed and Jack on the red light situation. It has been that way since I have been racing on the tree and I can live with it.

Casey Miles · 05-27-2009, 10:33 AM

Our sport has evolved, they have now Cross Talk installed into the most tracks, so why not No Red until both leave. This way the playing field evens out alot more then you think. Why do you think that all the better bracket racers want the faster cars, so that the slower car makes the first mistake. It's always easier being the faster car, you can judge the finish line easier passing someone rather then being passed. If you take out the RED on the first car then it takes out some of the advantage of the faster car. As a bracket racer and Stock racer, I would welcome the NO RED.
Just my view on the subject. Another part of this is to take out reaction times in time runs, and in eliminations just put in the difference of the reaction times so that they can be figured out by the contestants.
Casey Miles
248H

Ed Fernandez · 05-27-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

here's my .02 cents worth (and i should know)

i knew the rule when i chose my class / car (28 years ago)
i know i have a disadvantage on the redlight rule

i used to have advantage on class winner money ( until i was enhanced)
i now have another disadvantage on the line - two steps (some enhancement relief last year)

however... i still have advantages

i enjoy a good slick track, especially when paired with a-b-c radial car
i still spend less than an a--b-c car (but still way too much... enhance enhance enhance)
i never hit the wheelie bars and spin
i put up wiuth less assholes...the guys who race in o- w are a much nicer breed

captain
i agree with billy... lose the reaction times & incrementals

You're 101% correct Jack,as usual.And congratulations on the record with the batcar.

Ed
Slug Racer

05-23-2009, 06:22 PM	#1
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: M.g. What do I think? I think you somehow missed my response to my friend S.E. Buchanan which said, in part, "S.E., neither driver will see a red light until after BOTH CARS have left the line. A red light will mean "you lose," and the computer won't know who has "lost" until it compares both lights. It has no way to know whether the second car to leave will have had a worse red light than the first (and thereby become the loser) until he leaves the line, so there's NO WAY this system will affect the concentration of the faster car's driver. He will always assume the other car had a green light until he's left the line and sees a red, if there IS one. He will see what he's always seen when the first car to leave had a good green light. NO additional distraction...." That is the way I've been told the software works. Nothing else would be acceptable; you absolutely CANNOT have a red light coming on and distracting a driver who hasn't left, yet! Nobody should EVER have to put up with that!!! Thanks for your thoughts, Gary. Bill __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 05-23-2009 at 06:27 PM.

05-25-2009, 12:58 PM	#2
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: M.g. Unscrew the red lights, disable the down-link to the scoreboard, and let them find out at the time booth who broke-out the most and was the winner, then the announcer can tell the crowd. The second guy to leave deserves the "right" to lose by a worse red light.

05-27-2009, 12:06 AM	#4
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: M.g. Ed said: "Bill,maybe I'm crazy but I see no reason to make things anymore complicated than they already are." I agree; they're plenty complicated, now. Having said that I must ask, in what way would this complicate ANYTHING insofar as what the driving experience is? What would you do differently? What would a AA car do differently??? Tell me; I may be missing something here... If racing, using this system is going to be more complicated, I'd like to know what about it complicates ANYTHING?????? I'm serious. Explain the "complication" to me, please. Thanks for hanging in there and reading all that crap I wrote.... but, if you think that racing under this system is going to be ONE IOTA more complicated than what we have now, then ~I~ don't understand it, myself.... 'cause I sure can't see it. What it be????????? Bill __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 05-27-2009 at 12:17 AM.

05-27-2009, 12:14 AM	#5
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: M.g. Gary, Don't get your hopes up; this change would never, ever, net NHRA one red cent, and it would cost money for the changeover software, so I think it chances of its ever seeing the light of day are slim-to-none. I've tried to get the racers on this board to support this idea for years, and I can't even get the guys with S-L-O-W cars to agree that it's going to be beneficial, and they're the ones getting screwed the most with the current system. Most of the racers who are against this idea, I am convinced, don't understand how it works. I am sure that NHRA has no interest in making this change. It's such a simple idea; if they wanted it changed, it would have been changed years ago. But, thanks for your interest and kind words. Bill __________________ Bill

05-27-2009, 09:30 AM	#6
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 476 Times in 117 Posts	Re: M.g. here's my .02 cents worth (and i should know) i knew the rule when i chose my class / car (28 years ago) i know i have a disadvantage on the redlight rule i used to have advantage on class winner money ( until i was enhanced) i now have another disadvantage on the line - two steps (some enhancement relief last year) however... i still have advantages i enjoy a good slick track, especially when paired with a-b-c radial car i still spend less than an a--b-c car (but still way too much... enhance enhance enhance) i never hit the wheelie bars and spin i put up wiuth less assholes...the guys who race in o- w are a much nicer breed captain i agree with billy... lose the reaction times & incrementals __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

05-27-2009, 10:01 AM	#7
Tony Janes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Whittier, Ca Posts: 830 Likes: 94 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: M.g. I agree with Ed and Jack on the red light situation. It has been that way since I have been racing on the tree and I can live with it. __________________ Tony Janes 7941 STK, SS

05-27-2009, 10:33 AM	#8
Casey Miles Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 705 Likes: 128 Liked 502 Times in 91 Posts	Re: M.g. Our sport has evolved, they have now Cross Talk installed into the most tracks, so why not No Red until both leave. This way the playing field evens out alot more then you think. Why do you think that all the better bracket racers want the faster cars, so that the slower car makes the first mistake. It's always easier being the faster car, you can judge the finish line easier passing someone rather then being passed. If you take out the RED on the first car then it takes out some of the advantage of the faster car. As a bracket racer and Stock racer, I would welcome the NO RED. Just my view on the subject. Another part of this is to take out reaction times in time runs, and in eliminations just put in the difference of the reaction times so that they can be figured out by the contestants. Casey Miles 248H Last edited by Casey Miles; 05-27-2009 at 10:46 AM.