Ahfs

[Eddie Rezac]

Originally Posted by Don Kennedy

Instead of every one complaining about this system why don't we come up with a "better Way" to help the system ? a good idea in my opinion.

Why don't we go back to the simple system of the of the past, and run off the national records! Start by knocking about a second off the index, run everything, with about a .010 breakout, and let the racing do the rest. It may help to bring back points, for records also. That system worked for years, till they came out with the index, which has been argued from day one.
Eddie Rezac

[Harry 6674]

Originally Posted by Eddie Rezac

Why don't we go back to the simple system of the of the past, and run off the national records! Start by knocking about a second off the index, run everything, with about a .010 breakout, and let the racing do the rest. It may help to bring back points, for records also. That system worked for years, till they came out with the index, which has been argued from day one.
Eddie Rezac

Right on. Thats a good place to start. Some people will claim fields will get smaller. Isn't if heading that way now? Maybe some racers would return to the sport that was screwed up with dialins,dialunders and all that crap. Maybe even the fans would return.

[fredjohnston]

Originally Posted by Harry 6674

Right on. Thats a good place to start. Some people will claim fields will get smaller. Isn't if heading that way now? Maybe some racers would return to the sport that was screwed up with dialins,dialunders and all that crap. Maybe even the fans would return.

NOT GOOD! What if you can only run .60 under your "record" and the guy next to you can run 1.15 under his/her "record"? You've got no shot at winning so why go to the track?

[Ed Wright]

It was only 1/10th under allowed or you break out. Not all that many could run under at times. I've seen div 4 races won by guys running as much as 1/10th off their record. Of course, we always have just killer air around here. Like 3000' & 4000' DA in the summer. Slower guys worked hard to learn what they were doing wrong so they could get faster. Nowadays, many would just give up after a couple of races and go bracket racing. Which is pretty much what they have SS dumbed down to now. I raced the whole first season (in 1962) before I won a round. I felt I could figure it out if I stuck it out. I know I'm not fast now, but I feel pretty good when I can qualify in the top half with a low dollar car, and doing my own engines. Still can't drive worth a damn.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

It was only 1/10th under allowed or you break out. Not all that many could run under at times. I've seen div 4 races won by guys running as much as 1/10th off their record. Of course, we always have just killer air around here. Like 3000' & 4000' DA in the summer. Slower guys worked hard to learn what they were doing wrong so they could get faster. Nowadays, many would just give up after a couple of races and go bracket racing. Which is pretty much what they have SS dumbed down to now. I raced the whole first season (in 1962) before I won a round. I felt I could figure it out if I stuck it out. I know I'm not fast now, but I feel pretty good when I can qualify in the top half with a low dollar car, and doing my own engines. Still can't drive worth a damn.

So in you're vision of S/SS it would come down to "work harder" (i.e. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).The guy with the most money and any ability to drive would be king.
As fast as we're spiraling to earth I think your system would hasten the end.
Just my 0cents.

[Mike Carr]

Running off records, or running it like Comp, would kill the majority of S/SS racing. Here is a recent example, that I posted before but will mention again.

1998 Dutch Classic. A gamblers-style eight car race was run. Pay twenty bucks, eight best reaction times of those who signed up got in. About 20-25 cars signed up. In 1999, they did it at the Opens in Delmar and Atco, and the Div 1 race at Maple Grove. It was run Comp Eliminator style, off the Index. The field average was used as the CIC point, and in effect for first round. If the field average was, say, -1.032, -1.03 was the CIC, with a one-to-one ratio. The difference from Comp was, it started for first round. So if you had a GT/DA and had run -1.11 in qualifying, your Index went from 10.80 to 10.73 for first round (for the Atco race it was this way, I know. Not 100% sure if it was this way at Delmar/Grove). Car counts for S/S at those three races were five, seven and nine, respectively. Stock participation was not much better. Point is, if something like this was implemented, those with the money and/or fast cars would be the only ones that would show up, IMO. Anyone with money would guy buy the baddest (insert engine builder's name here) bullet in the world. That mentality should be left for Comp and Pro Stock.

Another problem would be with some of the records set at altitude tracks and killer mineshaft conditions. Could you see all the B/SA's running off of a 9.82? Most A and AA Stockers can't run that. When Billy set the HF/SA record in the Sunbird at Delmar in 2002, it was below sea level air, with a tailwind. Record was set at 17.303 (18.60 Index. And he only qualified EIGHTH!!). The best I ever went in three years of racing that car was 17.48, in really good air at Hagerstown. Point here is, some classes would really be affected adversely by out-of-line records set in rare air (sea level and altitude both). I think it should left alone.

I do agree with Ed O, though. We need to enforce the rules, all of them, and the same way in every Division. Also, it always amazes me of the people that constantly want to change the way things are. If you like to go fast, qualify at the top, set records and win Class, you can do that. If you're a person that likes the challenge of the bracket racing aspect and pitting their finish line/starting line skills against many of the best in the world, you can do that also. Seems like there is something good for everyone. Why not keep it the way it is? Seems to have worked well for the past twenty years or so.

[Bob Pagano]

Hay Ed wake up, how often dose Bob Shaw run out???? Same old same old no matter what you run off of.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

So in you're vision of S/SS it would come down to "work harder" (i.e. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).The guy with the most money and any ability to drive would be king.
As fast as we're spiraling to earth I think your system would hasten the end.
Just my 0cents.

Seems like the slower guys think the faster guys are faster just because they have more money. Won't help to work harder if you don't know how or what to work on or work at. First, don't throw it away on things that don't make you faster. If you need a tenth or more, an aluminium spool or titanium lug bolts won't get you there. You can walk around and see a lot of wasted money on many slower cars.

If you can't drive all the money in the world won't help you, or me. And I didn't say Stock. I said SS. I don't have a stocker, so don't care what they do there.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Seems like the slower guys think the faster guys are faster just because they have more money. Won't help to work harder if you don't know how or what to work on or work at. First, don't throw it away on things that don't make you faster. If you need a tenth or more, an aluminium spool or titanium lug bolts won't get you there. You can walk around and see a lot of wasted money on many slower cars.

If you can't drive all the money in the world won't help you, or me. And I didn't say Stock. I said SS. I don't have a stocker, so don't care what they do there.

Ed,what affects SS affects S.We're all in the same boat.I realise this isn't a poor mans sport but going back to running off the index will kill S/SS.It's not 1968 anymore(unfortunately).
Even Dick Butler is silent about heads up.He gave his pitch and I think he realizes it is a thing of the past.

Ed

Jeeze,there's getting to be alot of Ed's on here lately.

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

So in you're vision of S/SS it would come down to "work harder" (i.e. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).The guy with the most money and any ability to drive would be king.
As fast as we're spiraling to earth I think your system would hasten the end.
Just my 0cents.

Amen!