Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ?

Aubrey N Bruneau · 03-13-2009, 07:29 AM

Been a while, guys ! Have a new computer, but forgot my password, so I had to re-connect this old one !

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this problem, and if so, can it be remedied by "normal methods ?

I've got American Racing Trackstars, with new M/T rubber.
Over 70 MPH, the car shakes pretty bad... as in quite a wheel balance problem.
An AWFUL LOT of money for wheels that don't run smooth ???

Anyway, I was removing them the other day, and noticed that with the nuts cracked loose, the wheel can be shifted "up and down" about an 1/8 of an inch !
This CAN'T be helping the situation !
So, I am thinking of having small aluminum collars machined, which will centre the wheel properly on the hub/axle.
Is this something that somebody else has had to do ?

As far as basic wheel balancing, the wheels don't seem to have a suitable place to stick weights.
I'm thinking that an ordinary "static" balance would be sufficient... especially in the case of the little 4" wide front wheels ?
yes ?

as always, thanks guys !

curtis hieb · 03-13-2009, 08:02 AM

I would take them off and have them spun balanced you may have a tire out of round.

west coast · 03-13-2009, 11:33 AM

It sounds like the wrong rim and lug nut combination should not have any movement at all once the shoulder of the lug nut is in the rim. Balancing mag wheel stick on wieghts is pretty much what everybody uses. Try just the rim on the spin balancer to see if the problem is there then mount the tire to find out if it is the tire. If both are off then mark the tire and rim and then rotate the tire on the rim to find the spot that will take the least amount of weight. This takes some time if you have access to a tire machine or become good friends with your local tire guys most are motorsports fans and are willing to help and a six pack also helps.

Tom Goldman · 03-13-2009, 04:34 PM

We see a lot of balance problems at the dealership I work for......Many of them are related to tires that were balanced on a machine that did not register the wheel concentricly.......The machine we use registers on the bolt circle rather than the center hole. ........I've balanced tires for a friend who runs an Alcohol FC that were static balanced and shook like hell before I rebalanced them using the bolt circle locator. Just for the heck of it we checked them statically before I spun them and they were ok. .....I would still check the lug nut setup to see if they are the correct ones......Other than OEM wheels ,very few aftermarket manufacturers make wheels that register on the axle center hub .........Tom.........West Coast, you are dead right about the 6-pack! LOL

Aubrey N Bruneau · 03-14-2009, 11:41 AM

Thanks again, guys !

I will spin balance these properly... making sure that there's no hop.

Wheel nuts ?
These are the McGard nuts that are recommended by American Racing, with the "open end" provision.

Making a locating collar for the rear, is no problem, and I WILL do that.
Front is more difficult, as the Wilwood hub is completely rounded.
I'll see how they are for movement.

John Kelley · 03-15-2009, 12:35 AM

I found this on a WHEEL/TIRE web site....

"Centerbore relates to the center hole in the wheel that centers the wheel on the hub of the car. Since most wheels are mass produced, they have a large center bore to accommodate several different vehicles. If this is the case, it is recommended that you use a hub ring. Hub rings are hard plastic or metal ring that fits between the wheel and the vehicle. This centers the wheel perfectly on the hub ensuring that there is no run out when the wheel is installed on to the vehicle. Without hub rings it is possible to get vibrations even if the wheel / tire assembly is perfectly balanced."

I remember a Nova at sacramento that had those problems because the wheel didn't "register" on the axle hub !! It was fun to watch but SCARY for the driver ! He got it fixed before he ran again !

Aubrey N Bruneau · 03-26-2009, 09:35 AM

Well, I drafted up a collar, which has two outer diameters. One to center the wheel, and the other to center the Wilwood brake rotor hub ( yes, it too flopped around on the axle flange ) on the end of the axle.
My machinist made them up out of aluminum.

WHAT DIFFERENCE !!!!!!
just dead on.. you know, just like a factory $3.00 steel wheel fits on !

thanks for the help, guys

03-13-2009, 07:29 AM	#1
Aubrey N Bruneau Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Eastern Alberta, Canada Posts: 311 Likes: 6 Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ? Been a while, guys ! Have a new computer, but forgot my password, so I had to re-connect this old one ! I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this problem, and if so, can it be remedied by "normal methods ? I've got American Racing Trackstars, with new M/T rubber. Over 70 MPH, the car shakes pretty bad... as in quite a wheel balance problem. An AWFUL LOT of money for wheels that don't run smooth ??? Anyway, I was removing them the other day, and noticed that with the nuts cracked loose, the wheel can be shifted "up and down" about an 1/8 of an inch ! This CAN'T be helping the situation ! So, I am thinking of having small aluminum collars machined, which will centre the wheel properly on the hub/axle. Is this something that somebody else has had to do ? As far as basic wheel balancing, the wheels don't seem to have a suitable place to stick weights. I'm thinking that an ordinary "static" balance would be sufficient... especially in the case of the little 4" wide front wheels ? yes ? as always, thanks guys ! __________________ Aubrey N Bruneau 6409 C/S 62 BelAir sport coupe, 409 HP 409

03-13-2009, 08:02 AM	#2
curtis hieb Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 125 Likes: 5 Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ? I would take them off and have them spun balanced you may have a tire out of round.

03-13-2009, 11:33 AM	#3
west coast Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Rainy Washington Posts: 609 Likes: 12 Liked 223 Times in 73 Posts	Re: Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ? It sounds like the wrong rim and lug nut combination should not have any movement at all once the shoulder of the lug nut is in the rim. Balancing mag wheel stick on wieghts is pretty much what everybody uses. Try just the rim on the spin balancer to see if the problem is there then mount the tire to find out if it is the tire. If both are off then mark the tire and rim and then rotate the tire on the rim to find the spot that will take the least amount of weight. This takes some time if you have access to a tire machine or become good friends with your local tire guys most are motorsports fans and are willing to help and a six pack also helps.

03-13-2009, 04:34 PM	#4
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,477 Likes: 892 Liked 883 Times in 237 Posts	Re: Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ? We see a lot of balance problems at the dealership I work for......Many of them are related to tires that were balanced on a machine that did not register the wheel concentricly.......The machine we use registers on the bolt circle rather than the center hole. ........I've balanced tires for a friend who runs an Alcohol FC that were static balanced and shook like hell before I rebalanced them using the bolt circle locator. Just for the heck of it we checked them statically before I spun them and they were ok. .....I would still check the lug nut setup to see if they are the correct ones......Other than OEM wheels ,very few aftermarket manufacturers make wheels that register on the axle center hub .........Tom.........West Coast, you are dead right about the 6-pack! LOL __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK

03-14-2009, 11:41 AM	#5
Aubrey N Bruneau Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Eastern Alberta, Canada Posts: 311 Likes: 6 Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ? Thanks again, guys ! I will spin balance these properly... making sure that there's no hop. Wheel nuts ? These are the McGard nuts that are recommended by American Racing, with the "open end" provision. Making a locating collar for the rear, is no problem, and I WILL do that. Front is more difficult, as the Wilwood hub is completely rounded. I'll see how they are for movement. __________________ Aubrey N Bruneau 6409 C/S 62 BelAir sport coupe, 409 HP 409

03-15-2009, 12:35 AM	#6
John Kelley Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tightwad,TEXAS Posts: 911 Likes: 6 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ? I found this on a WHEEL/TIRE web site.... "Centerbore relates to the center hole in the wheel that centers the wheel on the hub of the car. Since most wheels are mass produced, they have a large center bore to accommodate several different vehicles. If this is the case, it is recommended that you use a hub ring. Hub rings are hard plastic or metal ring that fits between the wheel and the vehicle. This centers the wheel perfectly on the hub ensuring that there is no run out when the wheel is installed on to the vehicle. Without hub rings it is possible to get vibrations even if the wheel / tire assembly is perfectly balanced." I remember a Nova at sacramento that had those problems because the wheel didn't "register" on the axle hub !! It was fun to watch but SCARY for the driver ! He got it fixed before he ran again !

03-26-2009, 09:35 AM	#7
Aubrey N Bruneau Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Eastern Alberta, Canada Posts: 311 Likes: 6 Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Tire/Wheel Balance ? Bounce ? Well, I drafted up a collar, which has two outer diameters. One to center the wheel, and the other to center the Wilwood brake rotor hub ( yes, it too flopped around on the axle flange ) on the end of the axle. My machinist made them up out of aluminum. WHAT DIFFERENCE !!!!!! just dead on.. you know, just like a factory $3.00 steel wheel fits on ! thanks for the help, guys __________________ Aubrey N Bruneau 6409 C/S 62 BelAir sport coupe, 409 HP 409