So...................

[John Quinn]

Originally Posted by Lynn A McCarty

I went to an NMCA race in Bowling Green Kentucky last summer and it reminded me of a points race in the 1970's. Who says NHRA isnt doing a good job? (

Is that meant to be a negative for NMCA? I had a lot of fun at points races in the 70's. If NHRA was doing a good job there would be more posts about having fun.

[Alan Roehrich]

Lynn, if GM was making money before gas hit $4 a gallon, why were they continually posting quarterly losses in the millions, and even billions, of dollars, for the last several years?

It's real easy to try to lay the blame for this massive mess we're in on a short term period of $4 a gallon gas and a "credit crunch". But it ignores all of the real factors. Gas prices and financial institutions collapsing were not the cause, gas prices were an excuse, and the collapses were a symptom of the base problem.

I can lay out the failures at GM, it'll take a while, but they are obvious. The question is, will you listen, or are you convinced it is "credit" driven? By the way, easy credit is what got us here, the lack of it, if it is really lacking, is not why we are here.

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Lynn, if GM was making money before gas hit $4 a gallon, why were they continually posting quarterly losses in the millions, and even billions, of dollars, for the last several years?

It's real easy to try to lay the blame for this massive mess we're in on a short term period of $4 a gallon gas and a "credit crunch". But it ignores all of the real factors. Gas prices and financial institutions collapsing were not the cause, gas prices were an excuse, and the collapses were a symptom of the base problem.

I can lay out the failures at GM, it'll take a while, but they are obvious. The question is, will you listen, or are you convinced it is "credit" driven? By the way, easy credit is what got us here, the lack of it, if it is really lacking, is not why we are here.

Alan,

You are totally missing the point. Just because someone does things you can criticize in hindsight, doesnt make you correct. Rick Waggoner himself said GM was making a profit on capital hill during the senate hearings before the current economic crises. So were a lot of companies.

It is credit driven. I would say well over 1/2 the people reading this thread dont have a credit score 750 or above. Doesnt matter if they build a ZL1 Camaros, if you cant finance it. How many have $30k to pay cash for a car? Not many.

Watch the credit loosen, and watch sales go back up. The liberal agenda to force the auto industry to build hybrids and left wing agenda products doesnt fly no matter how you prop it up. Surely you know that manufacturing can make a profit even though the company is writing it down?

If your wife is spending all your money doesnt mean your engine building business isnt making money. GM is undergoing global restructuring. It would take a book to write explanations. When I was working for Ford financial in 1999 they were making $10,500 on a Navagator and $5500 on a F150 pick up average. They lost money on every car. Want to know why they built SUV's and trucks?

Below is an explanation of what I am talking about.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor...r/letter1.html

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Lynn A McCarty

Alan,

You are totally missing the point. Just because someone does things you can criticize in hindsight, doesnt make you correct. Rick Waggoner himself said GM was making a profit on capital hill during the senate hearings before the current economic crises. So were a lot of companies.

It is credit driven. I would say well over 1/2 the people reading this thread dont have a credit score 750 or above. Doesnt matter if they build a ZL1 Camaros, if you cant finance it. How many have $30k to pay cash for a car? Not many.

Watch the credit loosen, and watch sales go back up. The liberal agenda to force the auto industry to build hybrids and left wing agenda products doesnt fly no matter how you prop it up. Surely you know that manufacturing can make a profit even though the company is writing it down?

If your wife is spending all your money doesnt mean your engine building business isnt making money. GM is undergoing global restructuring. It would take a book to write explanations. When I was working for Ford financial in 1999 they were making $10,500 on a Navagator and $5500 on a F150 pick up average. They lost money on every car. Want to know why they built SUV's and trucks?

Below is an explanation of what I am talking about.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor...r/letter1.html

Lynn,
I'm not missing the point at all. If GM had been on solid operating ground and turning a good profit a year ago they would not be effectively bankrupt. And they are bankrupt, the only thing keeping them afloat is tax payers dollars, plain and simple. You know that the guy I race with is an automotive industry insider, and has been for a long time. The business model GM and Chrysler have been operating on is fundamentally flawed. Ford saw it coming and made more radical adjustments far sooner. That is why Ford is not bankrupt and GM is. Actual inside information about what is really happening shows the differences. Just operating differences, never mind the poor market decisions.

You can call it "hindsight" if you like, but when GM made the moves they made, or failed to make the moves it should have made, I called it then, it's just that you personally weren't standing there listening. That does not mean I'm not correct, and neither does calling it "hindsight." GM has screwed the pooch so many times in the last 2-3 decades it is no wonder they are in the shape they are in. I'm a die hard GM supporter, I do not now own anything that is not GM, and I haven't for 30 years. But I'm not so blinded by my loyalty as to not see pure stupidity when it is staring me in the face.

GM failed to make the necessary cuts and restructure when everyone saw this coming, and Ford did not. And it takes two hands to count the major market errors GM has made just in the last decade and a half. And they continue to make those blunders.

If GM was REALLY making such a solid profit, they'd have been in a solid financial position when the latest economic crisis hit, and they wouldn't be bankrupt and begging the government for tax payer's money to pay their bills and their employees.

Considering the position GM has gotten themselves into, I certainly wouldn't take their advice on whether or not to invest, and I wouldn't be looking at what they post on their website to see how they were doing. They evidently thought they were doing well enough they wouldn't end up bankrupt. Turns out what they were thinking wasn't working out too well.

By the way, eventually the automotive crash was bound to happen. Anyone could see it coming. Go back to 1970, we (my family) bought the biggest and best truck Chevy had brand new, and paid a staggering $3500. We had just bought a 3 bedroom two story brick home in a nice neighborhood on 1.5 acres, for about $30K. So the truck barely cost over 1/10 what a house cost. Fast forward to 1994, my wife and I bought a brand new 3 bedroom house on right at an acre, and paid $72K, counting every penny cost. We looked at a new truck, in 1995, and did not buy it because they wanted $32K. So the truck would have cost almost 1/2 what the house cost. And five years ago our house was worth about $100K, and we looked at a new truck, it was almost $44K. When a new truck costs damned near 1/2 what a house costs, you don't have to guess as to why new vehicles aren't selling like fast food.

And those new vehicle prices are WHY you need a credit score of 750 to buy one. Because if you don't make a lot of money and have killer credit, you can't afford the payments. You can buy a NICE House and pay $650 a month with decent credit. And if you buy a nice 1 ton truck, your payments will be about the same, for 5-7 years. When you get the truck paid for, it's worth 1/3 what you paid for it, at best, if you drive it.

And if they don't do something about the prices, it won't matter if you've got excellent credit, if you don't make a ton of money, you won't be able to afford to make the payments.

Like I said, even people with excellent credit are not buying cars right now. Why? Not because they can't get a loan. Because they're concerned about having a job.

I didn't bring the "gloom and doom" here. But I certainly will not hide my head in the sand and say "everything is fine" and "all we need is credit" to fix this absurd fiasco that our economy has become.

With regards to NHRA, I'm not about to abandon it, nor am I proposing that as an idea. But I do not think it is a good idea to just sit by and say nothing when things don't look right. To say the SRAC is "working like it should" is either saying it shouldn't work well at all, or being very generous. When a guy like Woodro resigns from the SRAC, because of how it is working, or how it is not working, and he is not the only one, that should really tell us something. And when NHRA takes control of the AHFS away from the two people who know Stock and Super Stock best, and they don't bother to tell us about that, well, that should tell us something, too. I'm doubting either of those two moves is a real major cost saver for NHRA.

I'm not predicting the end of the world here, not the automotive world, or the NHRA drag racing world. I still plan to go to the races this year, and I'm still working towards another ride. I sent in my renewal, and that includes my competition license renewal.

In any event, I doubt anything is going to happen here, short of some of us agreeing to disagree with others. At least the 1st Amendment still covers that, and so long as we're civil and intelligent, no harm is done. And thanks to Kenny for allowing us to do it here. It is greatly appreciated.

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Lynn,
I'm not missing the point at all.

So..................................rry Alan, but you are. Reread my original post. The stuff you are talking about although partly true has little relevance with what I posted. If everyone could finance a car with credit scores 600 to 750, sales would be up 30 to 40%. Now that gas is $1.79 SUVs would be selling good too. So................................................ .........trying to use this economic downturn to promote their political agenda to make electric cars is BS! You guys trying to use the economic downturn to fuel your complaints with NHRA is wrong. Not that the things you say are wrong, but like Colin said just about everyone is down.


I have been a cost savings consultant for the Big 3 auto industry since 1979 (just part of what I do). I have worked with people like Jack Smith, Bob Lutz, Lee Iacocca, Dick Dauch to name a few you might recognize. I went to Dick Dauch's book signing part where Lee gave an excellent automotive industry speech. In 1993, GM wanted me to sit down to strategize with the two guys that were opening the first GM manufacturing plant in China. I have been in 80% of all automotive facilities in North America doing cost savings studies. They make continual progress.


The number one rule of Globalization is that you protect your country's own interest first! Our government is failing to do that. So................................................ ....all the other countries steal our business by manipulating their advantages to the global market. The global manager of Delco gave us a presentation about the GM parts business in 1991. At that time, $5000 of the price of a GM car went to the infrastructure of the US due to taxes. For a similarly based foreign car it was $800. The US auto industry is paying $1500 per car for health insurance. Non-US is less than $800. So................................................ ...shouldnt we level the playing field? Read link below:


http://www.americanprogress.org/issu..._industry.html


It is like me trying to build my B/S 69 TA from Alf Weibe while trying to run 40 year old castings against Edelbrock headed BBC, BBF and upgraded casting Chrysler motors. Not till they level the playing field. I am already married to a blond costing double as I can only afford so much!

[AC]

I agree with that its better to view the glass as half full than half empty but you need to keep that in check and with the reality of what is happening around the world these days. At 35 yrs old this is the first time I have been part of an economic melt down so may be I am a little more conscience then I should be. But in reality things are not good.

Yes people are out there spending, (I was at a Porsche dealership last week and people were buying cars like they were giving them away), people are racing, going out, vacations etc… But what happens when the corporations that help keep the pro racers on the track start to pullback on sponsorships? I have heard more than once that the France family in Nascrap is helping support teams so there are full fields. Yes sportsman racers are the backbone, yes the NHRA needs us, but without the pro’s at the track I do not think you will have an NHRA. Every day you read more and more companies letting employees go, cutting budgets, in other forms of motorsports companies like Honda, Kawasaki, Audi, and Peugeot have limited their racing events. GM can not afford to and probably would get a lot of crap from the government if it supported a racing series or teams with stimulus money. In the past month you have had some of the parts suppliers shutting their doors. Some people I speak to think I am insane because I always bring up what will happen to racing in these times (they think there are more important things to worry about) and I know racing has gone through its ups and downs but things are changing and I think a lot of changes are here for good. Will there be an NHRA around when my 4yr old son is older, I don’t know(who knows if we will have race tracks with these dam “green” lovers) but I do not think they can afford to run their non for profit organization as they have in the pass without some major set backs or going out of business.

I really think Kenny Knowling and the ADRL have the ticket, like someone said you get 40,000 people in there and they buy shirts, hot dogs, water etc.. and the track owners are happy. May be we need to do that at Divisionals?

As far as GM, I said many years ago they will put themselves out of business because of the Unions but a lot of people said I was nuts, and don’t tell me the unions did not help this situation!!!!!


Just remember “everyone dies, but not everyone lives”!!!

[Paul Sarvas]

Originally Posted by AC

As far as GM, I said many years ago they will put themselves out of business because of the Unions

Do you think if you say this enough times it will become fact? Blame workers for a company's problems? General Motors is in financial trouble because of the UAW? pfttttttt.

pS

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by John Quinn

Is that meant to be a negative for NMCA? I had a lot of fun at points races in the 70's. If NHRA was doing a good job there would be more posts about having fun.

Of course not except for the people who think the glass is half empty. I like better the people like Colin Wigle and Ken Miele who pefer to say the glass is half full. I more agree with the group of engineers who say you have the wrong size glass for the job.

I love NMCA, NHRA, IHRA, and all racing. At Indy last year with all the GTAA guys we had the most fun we ever had. They hit us for 100lbs in Pomona, but we still had fun. Worst day at the race track is still better than the best day at work.