Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger

bill dedman · 03-15-2009, 06:55 PM

Smitty said, "Chrysler built the Hemi back in the 60's as a purpose built SS car and you couldn't drive it on the street. There were to versions, the street and race just like Ford."

But, you never saw a '68 Hemi Barracuda/Dart or a Thunderbolt in Stock Eliminator, did you?

No... NHRA put them in Super Stock, where they belonged, and where these new cars belong.

If these new entries had been classified into Super Stock, where they belong, nobody would be complaining.

Supercharged cars that can't even be licensed don't belong in Stock Eliminator. That flys in the face of fifty+ years of tradition.

Don't agree? That's your right, but show me a precedent.

Alan Roehrich · 03-15-2009, 07:23 PM

That looks a lot like an MSD 1000cfm throttle body. Impressive, to say the least.

Do not look for GM to field a Stock Camaro. GM has nearly completely killed off all of the groups that would produce such a car, and those that have not been killed off are just waiting to hear from the executioner. There is no Zora Arkus Duntov to write another memo to put Chevrolet and GM back in the game this time. And even if there were, it isn't likely anyone would read the memo.

Bruce Noland · 03-15-2009, 07:52 PM

Has IHRA published any information about the classification of these new cars?

Mike Carr · 03-15-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Has IHRA published any information about the classification of these new cars?

Bruce, not that I am aware of. As far as I know, IHRA follows, or tries to follow, NHRA rules, HP ratings, etc. Some HP factors may differ betwen the two.

Someone (maybe you?) brought up your AA car once. Does this mean no more Battery Mat Camaro? Is it for sale? Someone could have a bad-***, new G/SA-Jr Stocker in their garage soon?

LOL Barry, you're right, that could be the case before too long. What classes would they have to make for those cars? What would one of those fit? AB/SA or AE/SA or AH/SA (A Battery/Stock Automatic or A Electric/Stock Automatic or A Hybrid/Stock Automatic)?

Jared has a Pentastar on top of his Christmas Tree.

B.D. (Yeah...boring night.)

03-15-2009, 09:12 PM

Mike, it would be A/Shock Automatic....

Mike Carr · 03-15-2009, 07:35 PM

The weight breaks are different, hence no T-Bolts, AMX's and '68 Hemis in Stock. AA/S is the same weight break as SS/D (7.5). If the weight breaks were the same, those other cars would be in Stock Eliminator. Actually, when the '68 Hemis came out, they ran SS/B and SS/A was an empty class (nothing fit). The AMX's were SS/F when they debuted. Not sure what the T-Bolts fit. The Hemis were rated 425 from the factory (hmmm). I don't know exactly when, but soon after NHRA rated the Hemis at 500, where they still stand today for the stick cars (507 for the automatics). I guess if we had the old school regime at NHRA now, instead of the bean counters, they would have laughed at the absurdity of the 425 rating of the 2008 CJ's and assigned them a more realistic factor? Who knows. It would be neat if Stock ran on the same weight break as S/S (starting at 6 pounds for AA, 6.5 for A/S, 7 for B/S, etc). Could have made for some even more interesting matches in the higher classes. Oh well, it's a moot point. With the evolution of racing and factory stuff, things change. Thirty years from now, there might be something come down the line that is a half-second faster than the '08 CJ's, and those racers will be complaining, same as the modern-day '08 CJ bashers are. Same as the Stocker racers did when the LT-1/LS-1's came out and began to dominate. These new Mustangs are far the first cars to come down under-rated and dominate, and sure won't be the last. I doubt they will last the whole year at their current rating. They will get hit, and may be relegated to AA, or even out of Stock, before too long. Who knows.

Jared Jordan · 03-15-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

I doubt they will last the whole year at their current rating. They will get hit, and may be relegated to AA, or even out of Stock, before too long.

That's definitely one advantage the Challengers have over the CJ's. If the CJ's get hit a few times they will be out of Stock like so many of you want them to be. On the other hand, the Challenger, which is rated 40 HP less for the "big" motor, will be around for the foreseeable future.

I haven't seen anyone discuss which of the two combos will be the faster of the two. I'm betting on the Dodge, but I'm admittedly biased...

My $.02

Jeff Lee · 03-15-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan

That's definitely one advantage the Challengers have over the CJ's. If the CJ's get hit a few times they will be out of Stock like so many of you want them to be. On the other hand, the Challenger, which is rated 40 HP less for the "big" motor, will be around for the foreseeable future.

I haven't seen anyone discuss which of the two combos will be the faster of the two. I'm betting on the Dodge, but I'm admittedly biased...

My $.02

Jared,
In Stock Eliminator my WAG or wild *** guess is the 6.1L Hemi will initially make 685 HP as a prepared stock eliminator engine following the rules and current tricks of the trade. That's engine Dyno.
My WAG on the 5.4L is 725-750 HP.
Plugging those numbers and weights of 3250 Challenger and 3570 Mustang show both equal at 9.78+/-.
Previously I had predicted by the end of 2009 a Mustang CJ500 will clock a 9.42. So far we've seen an official 9.79 on race #2 so I don't think I'm going to be out in left field on the Mustang prediction.
And I'll bet a 5-speed with the proper race clutch behind a 6.1L Hemi will see at least a 9.55 ET by the end of the year.
My WAG is that by the end of 2009 if a 5-speed Challenger 6.1L is properly built and driven with a high RPM launch (7500 or so) , it will be the fastest car in class. And I don't think a auto trans Challenger will be much slower.
I'm betting the Challengers will always have less traction issues (start and down-track) than the Mustang.
Maybe this should be it's own thread?

bsa633 · 03-16-2009, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan

That's definitely one advantage the Challengers have over the CJ's. If the CJ's get hit a few times they will be out of Stock like so many of you want them to be.

I dont think so..there's gonna be a new rule before that happens...going something like: Cars can always stay in stock if they were classed 7.5 or higher when they entered the class...but more likley they will just add 7.0..these new stockers are gonna make SS look silly..thats for sure..

We guys with the older "higher up" cars that dont want or can afford to build something new have to start finding a new venue fast ..these Cars are here to stay..and gonna change the face of Stock and SS forever..and ultimatley kill it i think..in Phoenix half of the field were upper class cars..that means alot of heads up..if there are a total of 8-10 of these new cars at the races..do you really think there will be 40-50 of the old one's there at the same time within a couple of years? probably less than half is my prediction..that means a decline in participants..not good for the class..The fix is FX at 7.0 and put the right factor on them...fast..

p.s That FX-class should be a class in SS not Stock in my opinion..but i can buy that the new cars gets to "shine" in Stock..

Bruce Noland · 03-16-2009, 06:02 AM

Mike,

Yes the Camaro left a couple months ago and my new car should be out very soon. Thanks for the nice comments about the Camaro.

I need to renew my stuff with IHRA to recieve their new rule book. Are the injected cars and carbureted cars still separated at IHRA events?

Thanks.

03-15-2009, 06:55 PM	#1
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger Smitty said, "Chrysler built the Hemi back in the 60's as a purpose built SS car and you couldn't drive it on the street. There were to versions, the street and race just like Ford." But, you never saw a '68 Hemi Barracuda/Dart or a Thunderbolt in Stock Eliminator, did you? No... NHRA put them in Super Stock, where they belonged, and where these new cars belong. If these new entries had been classified into Super Stock, where they belong, nobody would be complaining. Supercharged cars that can't even be licensed don't belong in Stock Eliminator. That flys in the face of fifty+ years of tradition. Don't agree? That's your right, but show me a precedent. __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 03-15-2009 at 06:57 PM.

03-15-2009, 07:52 PM	#3
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger Has IHRA published any information about the classification of these new cars? __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

03-15-2009, 09:12 PM	#5
Barry Polley Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger Mike, it would be A/Shock Automatic....

03-15-2009, 07:35 PM	#6
Mike Carr VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Enon Valley PA Posts: 1,650 Likes: 234 Liked 83 Times in 37 Posts	Re: Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger The weight breaks are different, hence no T-Bolts, AMX's and '68 Hemis in Stock. AA/S is the same weight break as SS/D (7.5). If the weight breaks were the same, those other cars would be in Stock Eliminator. Actually, when the '68 Hemis came out, they ran SS/B and SS/A was an empty class (nothing fit). The AMX's were SS/F when they debuted. Not sure what the T-Bolts fit. The Hemis were rated 425 from the factory (hmmm). I don't know exactly when, but soon after NHRA rated the Hemis at 500, where they still stand today for the stick cars (507 for the automatics). I guess if we had the old school regime at NHRA now, instead of the bean counters, they would have laughed at the absurdity of the 425 rating of the 2008 CJ's and assigned them a more realistic factor? Who knows. It would be neat if Stock ran on the same weight break as S/S (starting at 6 pounds for AA, 6.5 for A/S, 7 for B/S, etc). Could have made for some even more interesting matches in the higher classes. Oh well, it's a moot point. With the evolution of racing and factory stuff, things change. Thirty years from now, there might be something come down the line that is a half-second faster than the '08 CJ's, and those racers will be complaining, same as the modern-day '08 CJ bashers are. Same as the Stocker racers did when the LT-1/LS-1's came out and began to dominate. These new Mustangs are far the first cars to come down under-rated and dominate, and sure won't be the last. I doubt they will last the whole year at their current rating. They will get hit, and may be relegated to AA, or even out of Stock, before too long. Who knows. __________________ Mike Carr, Tri-State S/SS Association President Looking for 2015 S/SS Race Sponsors Contact me if interested buffdaddy_1302@hotmail.com (724) 510-5912

03-16-2009, 06:02 AM	#10
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger Mike, Yes the Camaro left a couple months ago and my new car should be out very soon. Thanks for the nice comments about the Camaro. I need to renew my stuff with IHRA to recieve their new rule book. Are the injected cars and carbureted cars still separated at IHRA events? Thanks. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

03-15-2009, 07:23 PM	#2
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,111 Likes: 1,570 Liked 1,814 Times in 413 Posts	Re: Spy shots - Don Garlits Challenger That looks a lot like an MSD 1000cfm throttle body. Impressive, to say the least. Do not look for GM to field a Stock Camaro. GM has nearly completely killed off all of the groups that would produce such a car, and those that have not been killed off are just waiting to hear from the executioner. There is no Zora Arkus Duntov to write another memo to put Chevrolet and GM back in the game this time. And even if there were, it isn't likely anyone would read the memo. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S