Mustang MPH?

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Im not bashing the Hemi,s as I happen to like them BUT Mother Mopar never made a single carb Hemi car in 1965 (hard top or sedan) on the PRODUCTION line. Mopar only made ONE special order all steel bodied Dodge 2-door hard top in 1964 (a 4-speed) on the PRODUCTION line that had a X Ram iron head Hemi. All of those NASCAR combinations with one carb were delivered to race shops as seperate engines and boddies for round track purpose. None were produced on a production line to be sold to the average "Joe" for the street. THe other X RAM cars were production runs. Even today they are allowed an intake manifold and carb other than what was used in NASCAR but who really cares? They are neat and are another combo to build that has been OK'ed by the NHRA. The L-88 Corvettes are another story. The accually produced 20 (17 are known to still exist...3 with thier original engines) on the production line and sold them to the public. That is documented. The rest of them that show up at auctions, or other venues, etc. and were raced are cars put together by race teams back in the good ole days by either buying an engine or were given engines thru some sponsorship agreements. Even the ONLY known L-88 1966 Corvette raced in SCCA was a factory project that started out as a regular 427/425 HP car and later switched to an L-88 project test vehicle. The 98 LT-1's I have no knowlege of as they are late modle FI computer cars. Detroit went out of business makeing "REAL" cars in 1971 when the last HEMI was installed in a 'Cuda or Challenger. THe rest since then are just transportation produced like TV,s and refrigerators for public consumption.....lol.

You are right about the '65 Hemi not being "line" production cars and them showing up in stock kinda made my Max Wedge car look weak.

Jim Rountree

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by bigshow2966

Bruce, I think you have me confused with someone else. I have never changed the factor on any combination, but I have friends who have gotten their own changed.

The NASCAR Hemi is as bogus of a combination as you can get anyway. It was a "stroke-of-the-pen" answer to Hawk's "I remember when..." Shelby IIRC.

All I'm saying is that if the Ford being soft bothers you so much take some facts into the fight and change it.

Mr. Dedman's plea that someone who has spent $60+K on a car that will now get killed by the Mustang heads-up is pretty short sighted too. The Mustang guys spent at least $70K to get where they are.

That's the beauty of class racing and wanting to be the king of the hill. There's always someone with a bigger stick or fatter wallet waiting to knock you off.

As a long time Max Wedge racer now in Nostalgia SS I have many friends that have put as much as $100,000.00 in their MW's and, on a Manufacturer's whim ,are now obsolete. The NHRA should protect those racers until the new cars are realistic factored.

Jim Rountree

[treessavoy]

Does anyone remember the '68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas?

Lets see: specially built with special parts and built in limited no's.......and...they went straight to SS.

New Mustangs.

Let's see: specially built with special parts and built in limited numbers.......and.....they went straight to......STOCK?

Jim Rountree

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Does anyone remember the '68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas?

Lets see: specially built with special parts and built in limited no's.......and...they went straight to SS.

New Mustangs.

Let's see: specially built with special parts and built in limited numbers.......and.....they went straight to......STOCK?

Jim Rountree

Jim,

Forty years have passed and a lot has changed. Todays Stock rules are like yesterdays Super Stock rules. As delivered, the Cobra Jet is nowhere near being a Super Stock car. They do however pass tech for Stock Eliminator as delivered. Just like the 1968 Hemi cars were built for Super Stock and could also be campaigned as built. To me the real issue is the HP. And so far we really haven't seen enough to make an honest judgement.
I have posted on this subject way too much, but I think a lot of guys are really missing a very important point. The showroom cars that are being built today have way to much junk in them that can legally be removed. We should be welcoming these new factory cars. The GTO is a great example of a combination that was not submitted properly. Keep in mind that it was put in the books when we had one pound weight breaks for fuel injected cars. I hope that the production Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are not submitted so heavy. I would also love to see the NHRA take a fresh look at the GTO.

Daren

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by GUMP

The GTO is a great example of a combination that was not submitted properly.

Was NHRA given the wrong numbers or that the numbers should be changed to fit another class?

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by bsa633

Was NHRA given the wrong numbers or that the numbers should be changed to fit another class?

Lets take the 2006 model. The GTO was put in the books at 9.53. That allowed it to run A-C/FI. The fuel injected cars are now back in Stock at 1/2 lb weight breaks. The GTO would have been better off at 9.49. If there were no fuel injected classes at the time I think that GM would have submited them to run the faster classes. Please note that the net difference is approx. 12 pounds!

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Jim,

Forty years have passed and a lot has changed. Todays Stock rules are like yesterdays Super Stock rules. As delivered, the Cobra Jet is nowhere near being a Super Stock car. They do however pass tech for Stock Eliminator as delivered. Just like the 1968 Hemi cars were built for Super Stock and could also be campaigned as built. To me the real issue is the HP. And so far we really haven't seen enough to make an honest judgement.
I have posted on this subject way too much, but I think a lot of guys are really missing a very important point. The showroom cars that are being built today have way to much junk in them that can legally be removed. We should be welcoming these new factory cars. The GTO is a great example of a combination that was not submitted properly. Keep in mind that it was put in the books when we had one pound weight breaks for fuel injected cars. I hope that the production Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are not submitted so heavy. I would also love to see the NHRA take a fresh look at the GTO.

Daren

I understand your point and I probably used the wrong example.

Take the 1965 Hemi B bodies. They were fully streetable with exhaust and everything, I even knew a guy that drove one for a while before racing it, yet they are not allowed in stock. Are the Mustangs street legal?

I think the question yet to be decided is what is the real HP for the Mustanges and like the '65 Mopars do they need to go to SS instead of Stock?

I am for race cars, I race a '64 Mopar but love all the various race cars from that era....what I don't like is a killer combo dumped into the eliminator bracket that makes any number of cars obsolete, especially a factory car.

I've read all the posts and brand loyality is not the question, a fair playing field is the goal.

I made my first pass in 1964, raced in 5 major associations, and seen it all but in the end it's the racers that put pressure on the associations to bring certain extra fast combinations into line. It's a slow process but it does work.

Good luck to all of you no matter what you drive.....but I hope I kick your butt....LOL!

BTW; does anyone remember the 1966 D/Dart, factory built, street legal yet not allowed in stock?

[bill dedman]

Savoy,

Check out this previous thread here:

http://tinyurl.com/c797wv

Bill

[bill dedman]

Treesavoy,

Travis Miller posted this, on that D-Dart thread:

"The reason the D/Darts got to run Stock without enough being produced was back then the specs were sent to NHRA preproduction. Cars were put in the classguide with the understanding that enough cars would be built in the model year. Sometime in later years it must have come to light that not enough D/Darts were built for Stock class forcing them into S/S only.

Travis"

Hope this helps....

A apologize for this blatant hijack; now, back to your regularly scheduled rant....


Bill

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Lets take the 2006 model. The GTO was put in the books at 9.53. That allowed it to run A-C/FI. The fuel injected cars are now back in Stock at 1/2 lb weight breaks. The GTO would have been better off at 9.49. If there were no fuel injected classes at the time I think that GM would have submited them to run the faster classes. Please note that the net difference is approx. 12 pounds!

That thing probably goes for hundreds of cars/combo's in the guide..but in your exapmle i dont really follow..The GTO has been granted a lower HP than Stock,still has that,HP has also been changed somewhere along the line(hit or decrease?)It would be 9.37 with the original hp...as in SS...now 9.53 as you stated..but it couldn't have been that when it arrived then..it also only take's a couple of hp(one hit) to bring it up one class if someone desire...and if it's uncompetitive ..well then a letter asking for lowering hp should be sent i guess..so.. not sure what your example is worth in this case..but in some other cases i am well aware what you saying..

p.s. On a personal note i'm still unsure if i think it was´a good move to let the cars go one class up and one down supposed to the old rule "original and one down only" .it created some new games..