GM axes performance division

[Michael Beard]

That plan calls for as much as $30 billion from taxpayers by 2011;

WhatwhatWHAT? I stopped buying GM products for a REASON. I don't expect to keep giving them money against my will. Only ever owned one GM myself, a '97 Chevy dually 454, which I hated. My wife used to have an '05 Cobalt, which she had nothing but problems with. Folks who have had good luck with GM products and wish to support them - that's great -- but don't force me to subsidize a company that *I* don't want to buy products from anymore. (Then again, I don't want to subsidize Chrysler with *more* of my money either, because I've already *bought* their products and shouldn't have to pay more!)

Happy owner of an '04 Ram 1500 4.7L and an '08 Charger 3.5L.

[KEN BUGAJ]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

WhatwhatWHAT? I stopped buying GM products for a REASON. I don't expect to keep giving them money against my will. Only ever owned one GM myself, a '97 Chevy dually 454, which I hated. My wife used to have an '05 Cobalt, which she had nothing but problems with. Folks who have had good luck with GM products and wish to support them - that's great -- but don't force me to subsidize a company that *I* don't want to buy products from anymore. (Then again, I don't want to subsidize Chrysler with *more* of my money either, because I've already *bought* their products and shouldn't have to pay more!)

Happy owner of an '04 Ram 1500 4.7L and an '08 Charger 3.5L.

Michael your dead on, I'm a GM guy and have been for year's.
The UAW has been a joke for year's.
When things were good they held a gun to Corp. GM and GM had to buy into it.
Now things are bad and will the UAW work with GM? NO !
Why, Because they know the Democrat's will bail GM out again. with our $$$$
They need to file and get it over with, They can make it through this, but their cost's need to get in line with
the other auto maker's.
We need to turn the $$$$ off.

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Geez, Everyone just calm down we've now entered a new era of "change" as promised by the newly elected President. The plan here is to fix all that ails the U.S. with large amounts of $. Now everyone knows this fixes everything, you take money you don't have and give it to people that have proven they don't know how to keep their companies solvent, then you give LOT'S of money to banks and investment companies that are so good at their jobs that they've bankrupted themselves, and by the way aren't there alot of folks who bought too much home,cars,toys ect. that desperatly need our help so they don't get forclosed on? I was taught as a young man that you carry your own weight, you don't ask for anything and you live with the choices you make in your life...Good or Bad. Last week I heard Glen Beck on The Oriley factor make a statement that rang true basically you can only load so much on your citizens before you have civil discontent and Revolution. Now these are some pretty strong words however seems to me I recall way back in history class there was something similar that happened about 1776 for close to the same reasons. I for one find it unacceptable that my tax dollars are being used to prop up a bunch of Failures, that is the very essence of capitalism you can do many things with alot of possiblities, the rewards if you suceed are yours and the problems are yours if you fail. Sorry for the rant just gets my blood up each time I hear of these Govt. freebies. Joe

[Steve Williams]

Mr. Bugaj,

The UAW is working with the Big Three especially GM. I do agree with your post though. This is a tough spot. Don't turn your backs on fellow Americans in this critical financial mess. We can and will get through this mess together. Good times will return and this era will go down in history as a reminder of what not to do for our future generations.

Respectfully Submittted,

Steve Williams

[Superfan1]

Ron Ortiz, I agree with you completely. I am a Ford guy, but that has never prevented me from buying whatever brand was fiscally feasible for me at the time of purchase. In the past, I have owned Mustangs, GM, and Chrysler products because they suited my requirements when I bought them. My current car is a 5 speed, loaded 2005 Hyundai which I purchased because of superior quality, a price tag under $17,000, and a 10 year/100,000 mile warranty. I have 57,000 miles on it and the only problem has been a burned out parking light bulb, which was replaced for free under warranty. Because of improved quality from Ford and Chevy, my 1st choice for my next car was a Cobalt SS because of price and mileage, and my second choice was a Mustang GT. I decide what brand to buy based on what is best for me, not what is best for any particular car company. Do any of you really think that any car company gives a s**t about you? Brand loyalty is fine, as long as it is tempered by common sense.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1

[Michael Beard]

How long does a company have to operate in the red before it realizes they have to 1) charge more for their product 2) pay their management/employees less 3) sell more product (and not at a loss), and/or 4) operate more efficiently? How can they charge more or sell more product? Make a better product than the competitors.

While everyone in the auto industry is hurting, Ford has it's head above water so far. I didn't buy the cry about how many millions of jobs would be lost if the Big 3 (oh, wait, really just 2 of 3 anyway) went under, due to parts manufacturers, etc.... If there's a market for "x" number of cars to be on the road, regardless of the manufacturer, then there's a market for parts, repair places, etc. It was the same "Save us now or else!" scare tactics that they used to push through the BS bailouts last summer, the auto industry bailouts in Dec., and more recently the so-called Stimulus socialism bill. As soon as they started socializing losses and propping up businesses that should have failed, the markets were thrown into turmoil, and the "too big to fail" businesses realized that they didn't have to act responsibly, because big brother would bail them out.... hm... just as mortgage-holders are doing now... some of whom are being told, "We can't help you right now, but if you default on your payments for 3+ months, then we'll save you."

If your business was not financially viable then, isn't now, or doesn't look to be in the future, why should we prolong the agony? Let the business fail as it should. Does that mean there would cease to be automakers in the U.S.? No! Somebody with some business sense would pick up the pieces and start a new auto company. If there's a market for a product, people will make that product.

We grew up with very little, but very happy with what little we had, and we got into drag racing on a shoestring budget. "Seven bucks worth of sawblades is cheaper than making horsepower, son." I've continued to play things close to the vest, maintained a great credit score, beenas financially responsible as I can and in just the last year or two, I've gotten out of debt and turned my business into a successful business. I'm finally realizing my dream, and NOW people who have made 2x, 3x or more as much money as me who have squandered their means want ME to pay for their indiscretions?! I don't think so, comrade.

We are rewarding bad behavior.

Rick Santelli nails it.

Watch Glenn Beck, 5pm weekdays on Fox. You are not alone.

/rant

[Michael Lyons]

Its not ALL the car companys fault. The $4 a gallon gas kinda exposed a flaw in the plan. It eliminated the middle class so that now theres basically the poor and the not poor(can't really say rich about alot of em). When the gas went up so did everything else, steel, food, energy costs, everything. And now that gas has gone back down nothing else has, in fact I went to the grocery store lastnight and my gatorade went from 1.08 to 1.16 since last week. Whats that almost an 8% increase? My cable bill just went up like 16%. Yet I will most likely be getting another paycut after not having any raises for 2 years already(to go along with the elimination of OT last june). The gas prices is what caused this rapid downward spiral the last 2 years. I don't know why no one will admit it! Nobody can see that? Anyways, go on and bash the big three but its really ALL car companies that are hurting right now. If the cost of cows doubled in 3 months not many people would be goin to The Outback anymore either!! To me you need to thank the oil men who were in office who did nothing to slow down their oil speculating buddies when they stuck it to the american people and ultimately the world.

[Roger K Fain]

If the American manufacturers want Americans to purchase their vehicles from them, then they need to take the first step and close their assembly plants in Canada, Mexico, and Australia. Just a few of the vehicles assembled by American companies in other countries:
PT Cruiser..Mexico
Pontiac GTO..Australia
Ford EDGE..Ontario, Canada
Buick Lacross.. Canada
Chevrolet Camaro..Canada
" Equinox "
" Impala "
" Silverado "
" Sierra "
GMC Terrain "
There are many more examples from all of the BIG 3. If we are going to "bail" them out, then they need to spend our money in America.

[Steve Williams]

Michael Lyons-You get it.
Michael Beard-You obviously don't. If you think for a minute that GM going under won't effect your life then you have not looked at all the facts. Maybe only in the smallest of ways but it will have an effect. Glenn Beck won't tell you the whole story but he will tell a story none the less. I guess if you are not a GM guy then we should have the opinion "Aw screw them guys-they did it to themselves". Does anybody realize the impact that the Mortgage, loan and banking industry has on the economy? 700 billion and 150 billion for a total of 850 billion and it was given to these people without question. The automakers on the other hand got bent over the rail and fornicated without grease for asking for what essentially is 34 billion. Staggering numbers for sure. But where is the complaining about the mortgage, loan and banking people? I am not hearing how our lives are better because of their failure. Think about 300,000 plus people in the United States having to file for unemployment at the same time. What a financial drain. Are you going to feed a hot meal to a person or give them shelter for a night in your home when we hit rock bottom (thats what people did for other people in the Great Depression). I think that the answer is NO. That is what kind of country we have become it appears. I am pretty vocal about this issue as I live in the heart of the Big Three and have educated myself about this issue. Mr. Beard-the money for the Big Three is not a bailout like the banking industry. It is a bridge loan. Check it out. The info is on the internet.

Respectfully Submitted,

Steve Williams

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Roger K Fain

If the American manufacturers want Americans to purchase their vehicles from them, then they need to take the first step and close their assembly plants in Canada, Mexico, and Australia. Just a few of the vehicles assembled by American companies in other countries:
PT Cruiser..Mexico
Pontiac GTO..Australia
Ford EDGE..Ontario, Canada
Buick Lacross.. Canada
Chevrolet Camaro..Canada
" Equinox "
" Impala "
" Silverado "
" Sierra "
GMC Terrain "
There are many more examples from all of the BIG 3. If we are going to "bail" them out, then they need to spend our money in America.

Whoa down there! Like it or not this is a global economy. Likley 80% of the clothes you have on now while reading this are made in Asia or somewhere other than North America. The idea of having car plants in other countries is good for business. The trouble the domestic car companies arre having stem from more than any one specific source.
Just ask the new generation what they want to buy, likley they will tell you Honda,Toyota, Lexus,Mitsubishi,Mercedes. That thinking alone has taken its toll on the domestics.Alot of this thinking comes from the automotive media,they always seem to bash the domestics, even when they are the clear winner in some comparisons.The other part of that thinking is they want to be different than their parents who always had domestics.
Gas prices and insurance costs have not helped either.Try to insure a young male driver in a V8 Mustang or any of the same cars, you need to take out a new mortgage! I am from Canada, I do not work for any of the carmakers but in my business I do work in many of the plants. The quality of the work and the cleanliness of the plants is second to none!
Are there problems with upper management? I do not know for sure, I am not privy to that information. Do i think there is upper management problems? Yes there will be somewhere,any large corporation will have problems in management. All large companies have the "right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing" problems. But blaming where a vehicle is made or assembled is not the answer. Roger, I say this in the interest of good constructive converstaion, not as a personal attack OK.

Todd Melville
Melville Racing
1577 T/STK
1971 Boss 351 Mustang