Factory experimental

Jack Matyas · 01-21-2009, 08:17 PM

Ed -- Its really about progress ......even your own car company ( AMC ) were involved in this type of activity in the sixties and seventies -- without this factory involvement were would we be ? Like the man said yesterday -- "Change" ..........seems you're not ready for it .

Jack Matyas · 01-21-2009, 08:21 PM

Gee Billy -- I said the words low buck and six in a row in the same sentence and the hairs on the back of your neck are standing straight.......................easy big fella ! ! !

Billy Nees · 01-21-2009, 08:36 PM

Take your meds and go to bed Jack.

Michael Kilduff · 01-21-2009, 08:50 PM

I don't blame the racers that are concerned about these cars. I would be too. Bruce mentioned in his first post I believe that these cars don't even have VINs. Kinda funky for a car with no VIN to be able to compete in stock, kinda like an oxymoron if you will. And I do see the importance of the factories getting involved again.

But here is a novel idea for the guys that are concerned. Band together and build one of these cars, and build it to fly everywhere you take it. Set the record with it. Then, after you feel the AHFS has caught up to it, sell it.

You would most likely get most of your money back (what would the Nat'l record holder in AA/S be worth?), you will have evened the playing field so the older cars can compete, and most of all, you will have beaten FoMoCo at their own game. At next year's SEMA show you could really ham it up in front of the Factory Ford guys

Ed Fernandez · 01-21-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Ed -- Its really about progress ......even your own car company ( AMC ) were involved in this type of activity in the sixties and seventies -- without this factory involvement were would we be ? Like the man said yesterday -- "Change" ..........seems you're not ready for it .

Jack you're a master of straying from the story.First off AMC never tried to sneak the SS cars into stock.
The new Mustangs actually are rated higher than the older cars.Show me an AMC who had a hp discreptancy as wide as the new Mustangs.All 68-69 390s were 315hp.All 70 390s were 325 except for the Machine that got 15 more.The big 3 were masters at fudging hp figures.
All i'm saying is that if these cars are allowed in Stock AND they are capable of mid 9s at about 140
it will take years to get them adjusted correctly,as you know a crafty drag racer can hide the true potential of their combo.Look at the #s some of the Top/Jr Stock cars run.It's right in NHRAs face and nothing is done about it.End of communication,beam me up.

Ed

Greg Hill · 01-22-2009, 08:49 AM

Is the motor in the new cobra jet the same motor in the Shelby GT 500? Are the specs the same? The Shelby has a rating of 500hp and the cobra jet is 425. If this is the case how is this not cheating on Fords part. I was at my son's hockey practice last night and one of his teamate's father is an engineer at Ford. I jokingly asked him if he could get me one of the new cobra jets. He said "What is a cobra jet?"
I told him what it was and said it was built at Rousch and had the same motor as the GT 500 but was rated at 425 instead of 500. His comment was " Isn't that cheating"? I don't see any specs on the Shelby motor, maybe someone familiar with them could comment.

Greg

Evan Smith · 01-22-2009, 08:55 AM

The CJ has much smaller cams, a full point less compression and smaller throttle body.

Greg Hill · 01-22-2009, 09:36 AM

Comparing the Cobra jet motor to the 510hp 281cu.in. motor goes like this. The 510 hp. motor has a.060 larger lift cam. Compression is about the same,the cobra jet has 49 more cubic inches, they both have 62mm twin bore sizes, both are intercooled and the cobra jet has larger valves and is a 4 valve head compared to a 3 valve head in the 510hp motor. Am I missing something here? With 49 more cubic inches and a lot more valve area it looks to me like the cobra jet motor should make substantially more power than the 510 hp motor. The supercharged motor should like the extra valve area.

Greg

MPR · 01-22-2009, 10:01 AM

The Cobra Jet engine is built at the same place as the Shelby engine but built to DIFFERENT specs. They are both 330 cu. in., the CJ at 425 hp and Shelby at 500 hp. No different than the 454/325 like in Grossi’s GT/AA car and the 454/425 in Stinnett’s car.
Most of the guys on this forum have never and will never run in a class with or against one of these Mustangs so this thread resembles the fuel injected cars in stock discussion on classracer a few years ago.
For the first time in decades Ford has become involved in NHRA Sportsmen competition. I think Brian Wolfe and the good folks at Ford Racing should be commended for their efforts. Why don’t we see how this plays out before the internet crowd tries to crucify it.

Greg Hill · 01-22-2009, 10:09 AM

MPR I also commend ford for getting involved in racing again. I think most of us only want to see these cars with the proper hp rating on them.

Greg

01-21-2009, 08:17 PM	#1
Jack Matyas Live Reporter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bethlehem , PA -Christmas City , USA Posts: 4,932 Likes: 411 Liked 2,052 Times in 400 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Ed -- Its really about progress ......even your own car company ( AMC ) were involved in this type of activity in the sixties and seventies -- without this factory involvement were would we be ? Like the man said yesterday -- "Change" ..........seems you're not ready for it . __________________ Jack Matyas 1547 FS/C 2015 Camaro COPO # 62- 2012 Camaro Convertible COPO

01-21-2009, 08:21 PM	#2
Jack Matyas Live Reporter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bethlehem , PA -Christmas City , USA Posts: 4,932 Likes: 411 Liked 2,052 Times in 400 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Gee Billy -- I said the words low buck and six in a row in the same sentence and the hairs on the back of your neck are standing straight.......................easy big fella ! ! ! __________________ Jack Matyas 1547 FS/C 2015 Camaro COPO # 62- 2012 Camaro Convertible COPO

01-21-2009, 08:36 PM	#3
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,504 Likes: 3,606 Liked 7,814 Times in 1,748 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Take your meds and go to bed Jack. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

01-21-2009, 08:50 PM	#4
Michael Kilduff Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 281 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Factory experimental I don't blame the racers that are concerned about these cars. I would be too. Bruce mentioned in his first post I believe that these cars don't even have VINs. Kinda funky for a car with no VIN to be able to compete in stock, kinda like an oxymoron if you will. And I do see the importance of the factories getting involved again. But here is a novel idea for the guys that are concerned. Band together and build one of these cars, and build it to fly everywhere you take it. Set the record with it. Then, after you feel the AHFS has caught up to it, sell it. You would most likely get most of your money back (what would the Nat'l record holder in AA/S be worth?), you will have evened the playing field so the older cars can compete, and most of all, you will have beaten FoMoCo at their own game. At next year's SEMA show you could really ham it up in front of the Factory Ford guys

01-22-2009, 08:49 AM	#6
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 69 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Is the motor in the new cobra jet the same motor in the Shelby GT 500? Are the specs the same? The Shelby has a rating of 500hp and the cobra jet is 425. If this is the case how is this not cheating on Fords part. I was at my son's hockey practice last night and one of his teamate's father is an engineer at Ford. I jokingly asked him if he could get me one of the new cobra jets. He said "What is a cobra jet?" I told him what it was and said it was built at Rousch and had the same motor as the GT 500 but was rated at 425 instead of 500. His comment was " Isn't that cheating"? I don't see any specs on the Shelby motor, maybe someone familiar with them could comment. Greg __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

01-22-2009, 08:55 AM	#7
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Factory experimental The CJ has much smaller cams, a full point less compression and smaller throttle body. __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

01-22-2009, 09:36 AM	#8
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 69 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Comparing the Cobra jet motor to the 510hp 281cu.in. motor goes like this. The 510 hp. motor has a.060 larger lift cam. Compression is about the same,the cobra jet has 49 more cubic inches, they both have 62mm twin bore sizes, both are intercooled and the cobra jet has larger valves and is a 4 valve head compared to a 3 valve head in the 510hp motor. Am I missing something here? With 49 more cubic inches and a lot more valve area it looks to me like the cobra jet motor should make substantially more power than the 510 hp motor. The supercharged motor should like the extra valve area. Greg __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

01-22-2009, 10:01 AM	#9
MPR Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 48 Likes: 0 Liked 23 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Factory experimental The Cobra Jet engine is built at the same place as the Shelby engine but built to DIFFERENT specs. They are both 330 cu. in., the CJ at 425 hp and Shelby at 500 hp. No different than the 454/325 like in Grossi’s GT/AA car and the 454/425 in Stinnett’s car. Most of the guys on this forum have never and will never run in a class with or against one of these Mustangs so this thread resembles the fuel injected cars in stock discussion on classracer a few years ago. For the first time in decades Ford has become involved in NHRA Sportsmen competition. I think Brian Wolfe and the good folks at Ford Racing should be commended for their efforts. Why don’t we see how this plays out before the internet crowd tries to crucify it.

01-22-2009, 10:09 AM	#10
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 69 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Factory experimental MPR I also commend ford for getting involved in racing again. I think most of us only want to see these cars with the proper hp rating on them. Greg __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK