If an advocate could be found - what would you say?

[Dick Butler]

Good Luck with this idea of input from the sportsman classes. NHRA sent a rep to a meeting at Columbus Nationals Years ago to hear our suggestions, complaints etc. He was very understanding. He met with NHRA after this meeting and was fired .Anyone remember this ?

[1320racer]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

The costs of admission, membership, permanent numbers, crew entry (remember when a Natl. Event entry came with 2 crew passes?) etc. have steadily gone up with or beyond the rate of inflation.

Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true.

The NHRA "Cash" Purse hasn't risen in over 25 years.

Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true.

The NHRA Contingency Program is a shadow of it's former self and IMHO, a joke. Why is that? Does it no longer concern or benefit the powers-that-be? Did the price of entry into the program from the Manufacturers standpoint get too high? Is there no-one in charge of this program who cares about the Sportsmen?

or maybe it's that in this millennium with social media, manufactures have realized they can reach far more racers and hobbyists than the NHRA contingency program could ever do and they don't have to pay the NHRA or racers. You think Mark Williams bowing out years ago effected their bottomline? I'm sure it did, for the BETTER. They nor any other former contingency sponsor has closed their doors.

Stock and SS Eliminators are "Performance Based" eliminators.

is it really? From my eyes, it's a dial in bracket race 99% of the pairs.

Over the years, the powers-that-be have seen fit to "retire" (eliminate?) the knowledgeable Tech Inspectors and Tech people who are supposed to be at the Races to "police" the entries. Excepting the U.S. Nationals, there is no more "tear down"

the only ones that care about teardown are those wanting to set records that no one cares about any more. Who gets excited in the year 2019 about some obsure combo running 15 seconds or god forbid slower No one! 1970 is long gone and never coming back. The LS6 Chevelle's 13.2 second performance, tuned by GM and driven by a professional back in the day, impresses no one today least of which young men 17-30, not when you can buy a brand new, street legal, off the showroom floor 9 second car and if that's too rich for your blood, 10 to 12 second showroom stock cars are plentiful. Cars that do everything better than those big old muscle cars ever did.

Again, the world changed, our country changed so why is it shocking to some that drag racing has changed. Drag racing nor our country is going back to what it was 10 years ago no mind 50 years ago and that should be obvious to all by now. Stop complaining about the money, who has it, who gets it, who spends it and focus on the fact that we are all fortunate to be able to do this. Motorsports is on life support. Enjoy what time it and you have left and stop complaining.

[Billy Nees]

Ed, I will no longer respond to you.

[1320racer]

You just did. Why is that Billy, lets have a mature discussion supported by FACTS, not opinions, assumptions, lies and personal attacks.

BTW, I didn't see your name "Liked" here...

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=72244

Or you telling my son here

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=71987

that you are "very happy for his success in S/C and wishing him continued success"

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

You just did. Why is that Billy, lets have a mature discussion supported by FACTS, not opinions, assumptions, lies and personal attacks.

BTW, I didn't see your name "Liked" here...

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=72244

Or you telling my son here

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=71987

that you are "very happy for his success in S/C and wishing him continued success"

You're lucky someone of Billy's stature converses with you at all.
Who in the hell do you think you are, besides a bracket racer from The Patch?

Take a hike...

[Angelo DiTocco]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true.



Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true

or maybe it's that in this millennium with social media, manufactures have realized they can reach far more racers and hobbyists than the NHRA contingency program could ever do and they don't have to pay the NHRA or racers. You think Mark Williams bowing out years ago effected their bottomline? I'm sure it did, for the BETTER. They nor any other former contingency sponsor has closed their doors.



is it really? From my eyes, it's a dial in bracket race 99% of the pairs.



the only ones that care about teardown are those wanting to set records that no one cares about any more. Who gets excited in the year 2019 about some obsure combo running 15 seconds or god forbid slower No one! 1970 is long gone and never coming back. The LS6 Chevelle's 13.2 second performance, tuned by GM and driven by a professional back in the day, impresses no one today least of which young men 17-30, not when you can buy a brand new, street legal, off the showroom floor 9 second car and if that's too rich for your blood, 10 to 12 second showroom stock cars are plentiful. Cars that do everything better than those big old muscle cars ever did.

Again, the world changed, our country changed so why is it shocking to some that drag racing has changed. Drag racing nor our country is going back to what it was 10 years ago no mind 50 years ago and that should be obvious to all by now. Stop complaining about the money, who has it, who gets it, who spends it and focus on the fact that we are all fortunate to be able to do this. Motorsports is on life support. Enjoy what time it and you have left and stop complaining.

1320 / Ed
I'll take a shot at answering some of your questions..... (based on my experience, although I believe if someone wanted to take the time to do it, finding verifiable data wouldn't be that difficult)
The cost of racing....
National Event Entries are about double what they were in the 90's when I started racing. And they definitely included one crew/restricted area pass.
The Nationals were a blast to race at back then. There were two days of qualifying and time trials..... (some races would have class eliminations) and the race eliminations started on Saturday morning. Compare that to now..... Entry twice as much, only one day of time trials/class etc with race eliminations starting no later than Friday morning. So in my view a good part of the fun factor is gone. The quotas are a drag, a real point of contention in my opinion. Back in the day there were often 90+ Sockers and 80+ Super Stockers at most Nationals in the heavily populated divisions. I can't say for sure but I strongly believe there were a lot more Super Class .90 cars as well, way more than the current quota system allows. Anyway - Somehow, even with the 2 days of qualifying and elims they still got these races done. They just don't seem like a good value in the current state.... I believe the others see this similarly but I can't speak for anyone in particular. I get it, and I accept that things have changed. So I attend these races when I feel like doing so and I don't when I don't.
Divisionals on the other hand, haven't really changed as much. The entries have gone up only moderately ($120 in the '90's / $170-$180 nowadays) which is understandable. The purses haven't changed much either, they may be modestly higher. I still see the divisional races as a good overall value (if that makes sense). No quotas or pre-entry factor a plus too.

Stock & Super Stock are traditionally performances based classes. They are mainly a dial in race as you state but..... Stock Eliminator, due mainly to the fact that it has remained organized in a traditional way (i.e. fewer classes), has a lot of heads up runs. It's there, you just may not have noticed. Super Stock (which has a lot more classes because of GT, FGT etc.), has a much lower frequency of heads up runs.

The advent of the AHFS put a damper of sorts on chasing performance. Class elims in the old days were like mini wars and there were a lot of rivalries which made it fun. Because (except for Indy) that's all crammed into one day - it's just not the same.

I'd love to see the old days come back because it was a lot of fun, but realistically that's not going to happen. I don't complain about that stuff myself, and I try to make the best of it because that's all I have time to do. We all have to adjust in our own way. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for people on here like Bruce and Billy, who not only are traditionalists but also have the will to advocate for the rest of us. You make an excellent point about enjoying what we have, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And when these guys race, I have observed them to do exactly that. But In order to at least preserve what's there there needs to be folks willing to assert themselves.... and we are lucky to have them.

I hope that helps put things in perspective. I didn't intend to be so long winded. We truly are all in this together.
Best of luck to you this season
Ang

[1320racer]

Angelo, thanks for taking a shot, offering some history and your perspective.

You are correct, we truly are all in this together and that's why I'm here commenting.

Thank you and good luck to you as well this season.

[Jim Caughlin]

Before anyone holds out hope that NHRA has hired someone who will devote time to talking to/ listening to sportsman racers and will have some clout to do something with that info, two simple words to consider: Len Imbrogno

[Kevin Panzino]

Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco

1320 / Ed
I'll take a shot at answering some of your questions..... (based on my experience, although I believe if someone wanted to take the time to do it, finding verifiable data wouldn't be that difficult) ..........

I hope that helps put things in perspective. I didn't intend to be so long winded. We truly are all in this together.
Best of luck to you this season
Ang

A most outstanding, well-spoken, professional and classy response, (especially for a NewYorker: Disclosure, that's an entirely friendly jab there from a guy who grew up just outside Newark/Jersey City, NJ, so I think I can get away with that...) I remember watching you race in the 90's,but have never met you in person. I hope to be able to do so some day, and have a few glasses of wine together. Thank you for bringing this death spiral of a post back to level flight.

[Bruce Noland]

The best-laid plans of mice and men can be ........ disrupted by a person so confident in his ignorance that he makes something so simple seem convoluted and ugly.

My intent for this thread was to ask for responsible feedback from the racers but clearly that cannot happen when one person is intent on blowing it up.

I have not raced for two years because I got into something wet in VA. and crashed my car. The year before that my racing was cut short because of work and health issues. I should have my new car out by the end of this year. But have never surrendered my membership or competition number. I think most people who visit this site might remember some of this story. Obviously one guy was pulling lint out of his navel at that time and missed it.

I personally think the biggest problem that the Sportsman racer is confronted with is the obvious effort by nhra to remove us from racing at National events. 20 years ago we could compete at the Gators with 600 cars on the grounds. And somehow the race was a success, barring bad weather. Now because the Pros need so much room and the TV schedule limitations they have scaled the race back by over 200 cars. Yet, nhra still has time for a cackle-fest and other forms of entertainment when we should be on the track racing.

It's easy to write a suck-up post to Lucas Oil and tell them what a fine job they are doing for us because it is obvious and true. Lucas Oil has saved our behinds out of the kindness of the Lucas family. They are the best. But we also have to be honest with them and say that nhra is taking their money while kicking the Sportsman racers off the grounds through the use of these draconian quotas. Lucas deserves better. It's investment is diminished when Sportsman racers figure out that it will take 7 or 8 grade points to get in a national event and there is no way they can attend that many divisional races in a year. And for many Sportsman Racers, getting grade points to attend national events is a prime motivating factor for attending Division races.

There is more but my old phone is about done. So I'll continue at a later date.