How competitive are you?

[Dave Ribeiro]

Muarice,
First of all it's Big bucks not Bug bucks , I know you knew that ??? All I was trying to say, is why does it have to be about New cars & Money?
Stock class, is suppose to be an entry level into Racing, let's leave it at that ... If you want to race with no-rules , you can go bracket racing and
pick how fast you want to run ? I think heads-up are fine when they happen , but making everything heads-up will hurt racing ... I don't think anyone's wants that to happen, if you do run 10.90,9.90 8.90 classes...

I think it's fine to have the heads-up as part of an event, but how many times can you try this before you see it's not for most racers? Ask the racers in Div 2 , they had an avg. of 8-10 cars .. That was with no-rules just 12.0, 11,0 10.0 dials, any engine, etc . Don't you think we have enough side- show things going at races today ???
The little guy is who keeps racing alive for all of us to use, look at Top Stock ? Great idea, but rules, $$$$, and lack of support ? The little guy is someone who really loves Racing , but doesn't have alot money to invest their operation .. (Racecar,tow-rig,parts, travel, etc ) I am only speaking about Class- Racers here, not everyone else in Racing ... They have paid their dues over the years, let's not forget them ....

Dick, I do agree that racing is at a crossroads and something needs to change ? As I have said many times before, you need to support Class-racing on a local level ? It's the Best game around, Allstar Racing, East Coast Racing, CCRA ,Jim Wahl group & all the others across the USA .
More support to your Local track's, so they can stay afloat (Car Counts ).
We need to support the people who support Us & Class Racing... Racing is also being Hurt by tough economy & gas prices ... Enough said ...

" Happy New Year " everyone ....

[joe cool]

I just consider myself a drag racer, not a class racer, bracket racer ,heads up racer,ect. I am not successfull at any of the above,but I'm all right with that. To me the problem is ***'s in the seats,if the stands are empty you can have classes , rules ,brackets ,and crap till the cows come home and nothing is going to change.
If you agree that this is a business then it has to be geared to the consumer, you are a participant, not a consumer. A consumer pays to get his family in to watch the excitment of racing. He can go to a ball game ,an amusement park,or just stay home.If he decides to spnd his money at the track he must be entertained. Now in an ideal world he would know classes ,index's, tear down specs and H.P. revisions of all organizations, but he doesn't.
IMHO make it simpler,easier to understand,keep it to around two hours for a complete show.
As racers we despise the clowns, burnout contests,fireworks shows and wheelie stunt bikes but the average spectator loves them. We must find a way to co-exist with this type of program to survive.If this is going to survive as a sport we need paying fans in the stands. All this other talk and bickering is not going to mean nothing.
Once again I am just a drag racer. When I attend a National event I find that a lot of racers are very arrogant ,unfriendly sorts of people. I have heard a young fan ask a uninformed question and seen him laughed at or given a smartass answer.
Anyway what do I know ,I'm just an old man that likes cars that go fast.

[MAURICE BLENDHEIM]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Maurice, it is interesting that you are calling Dave as regards to "car count" when your agenda is to get rid of heads-up runs and turn the class into a bracket race in lieu of a performance based class.

SS... No I don't believe I stated that at all. I just think we need to raise our standards on what we are allowing to be part of the show. The bottom line is the stands are empty and the payouts should be spectator subsidized. Stock and Super Stock in my opinion should remain as hardcore. That way the financial respect and knowledge for the classes will remain. We already have a sanctioning body that doesn't take things seriously, maybe it has something to do with our presentation.
Drag racing has lots of other classes that can meet a persons budget. I just think Stock and Super Stock should remain hi-performance based and exciting. The sport has changed as well as the interest as time progresses and the interest needs to be recaptured for the survival. Just my opinion.

[randy wilson]

The question should be, "Why are drag racers scared of true racing with rules, but circle track racers are not"? "Why are spec heads accepted in circle track, but not drag racing?" "Why do the circle track guys draw crowds of 1500 a weekend, at the local level, but bracket racing draws 3?" We truly have taken the crowd appeal out of drag racing. The truth hurts. I would race in a heads-up affordable format.

[Randall Klein]

Heads up and affordable are incompatible.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

The question should be, "Why are drag racers scared of true racing with rules, but circle track racers are not"? "Why are spec heads accepted in circle track, but not drag racing?" "Why do the circle track guys draw crowds of 1500 a weekend, at the local level, but bracket racing draws 3?" We truly have taken the crowd appeal out of drag racing. The truth hurts. I would race in a heads-up affordable format.

We're not "scared" of "spec" anything. The big difference between circle track and drag racing is the difference in the amount of teardowns that would be needed. Ay any given circle track on any given Friday night, you've got what, 4 or 5 different classes of which maybe 2 need to be torn down. NHRA had dozens of classes and the skilled manpower needed just isn't there. Circle tracks have "claimers" too! Now I'd love to see that in a "heads-up" format! I think that I'd do pretty well.

[D.Johns]

Why do the circle track guys draw crowds? Lots of chances for accidents and drama in the pits. There is a race nearly every weekend with the same local racers in a span of only a few hours drive. The racers friends and family and cousins are involved and everyone knows each other. Everyone gets together to have a good time and drink some beer and hang out. Drama between drivers and families can help add to the draw sometimes. Everybody pretty much knows everyone else so it's just a bunch of good ole boys.

One of the things I love about drag racing is the competitiveness and ingenuity of racers and builders. To me that's the most fun is thinking outside of the box to find an edge on the competition. Wether it's in HP or chassis.

Heads up never ends cheaply. It almost always starts with a racers sounding like baby chicks "cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap". Racing starts competitive people forge their way to the top and spend more then the next guy for R&D. You have spec engines? Fine one of the most expensive part is now cheaper (except some would say in drag racing HP is king and what it's all about so you are neutering the very core SOME may say) Besides there will still be people that will do the R&D for the chassis and do all the testing etc... Then the argument between the "have's" and the "have not's" will continue. The only way you can keep the cost low is sealed everything with no tweaking or testing. Like go carts at the local fun zone. No body sits and watches those for fun just stand in line waiting their turn to race another person(s).

It's a viscous cycle. Cheap cheap cheap...new class....happiness...competitiveness....dominance. ...evoulution.....new racers have a tough time jumping into the class to compete with the veterans that have been in the class since inception......complaining ....car counts lower.....more complaining...cheap cheap cheap....creative destruction old class dies new class is born.

[randy wilson]

The reason circle track draws crowds, is the same reason Eddyville drew crowds before 1980. Actual racing. I was there in 79, and I was there in 80. Pro stock is unbelievably expensive. Just like comp, and others. No one has tried to limit the head, in either pro stock, top stock, etc. Drag racing should have never allowed computers, or in my opinion, clutchless trans. All take the driving out of the equation. I know I'm probably flogging a dead horse, but local drag racing needs a shot in the arm. Let's look at some scenarios, shall we. Pro stock, $125,000 chassis, $125,000 motor, $250,000 misc. Comp, basically the same. SS, $50,000 car, $35,000 engine, $10,000 trans, $100,000 misc. Spec, heads, $1,700 new, short block, the best, $7,500, Trans, $3,500, clutch, single disc, $1,800. car, 72 and older, $25,000. All this, and 1\3 the price of SS. The head company could police the head, just like they police it at Knoxville. No computers allowed. How would anyone run away with it. Have a $500 head exchange only. No one will have an advantage under those simple rules. I don't see why the HRA's haven't tried it. I know one thing, what they're doing now is not drawing spectators. And the new car classes are all right, but still expensive, and no one knows their limits. Anyone afraid of a well policed spec class must have other issues. Don't let it get out of hand, and it won't. Have a $1,000 fine for any, and all infractions.

[Dick Butler]

Cost of Heads up is too much? Heads up Comp motors or ? Make it simple and limit them tightly. Carb size, header size have been suggested. Make the motor legal in ANY car you have now provided the wt break fits.Sure someone will have a cavalier, but rules can be made to make them and vettes and whatever in one class. Box cars in another.
Week ends at the local tracks can have the local Bracket guys getting involved so the Round track excitement of Local heros can develop in Drag racing TOO.
If you need bogus HP to be competetive you are using it as a crutch. Beat someone with the SAME combo, same hp, same cubes and you have achieved it

[randy wilson]

Good point Dick. Just examples here now, so bear with me. 2" headers max, 13" slicks max, 1 single disc clutch, not smaller then 10.5" no computers, .600 lift cam, stud mounted rockers, except mopar, steel valves, 1 750 carb, 6.50 rear ratio max, no titanium or carbon driveline parts, other then drive shaft, (safety issue), no vac pumps, no external oil pumps, no billet pumps, no left hand starters, distributor in stock location, cam, standard journal size, and in stock location, lifter, standard size, cast aluminum intake only, heads, brodix spec, mopar, ford, and chevy, milling, and polishing the combustion chamber only mods, brodix has final say on teardown, spec fuel, say C-12, ,4 pro tree, min. wt. 3,000 lbs, cars older then 82, 75 lb. break, autos a 5% break. Clutch must be used to shift ALL gears. Just ideas mind you.