Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

[Rat Patrol]

Originally Posted by oldskool

"...for 1966, I found it VERY difficult finding any GTO pics of NHRA stockers..."

I don't have any trouble finding pics, for cars that raced that year. But, just can't find much info about any '66 GTO's that raced AFTER '66.

Maybe most of the serious Pontiac Stock racers switched to the '67 Bird's, with the new 400 engine, Q-jet carb, & TH400 trans.

Then in '68, there were the open chamber D-port heads & the RA2 round port head engines.

Then of course, came the RA4 engines, in '69. Guessing that by '69, most all the serious '66 GTO Stockers were gone.

So, I have no idea if the '66 Tri-Power GTO's ever got into the 11's or not. Guessing that low 12's is as quick as they got, in legal Stock form, before they disappeared from the tracks.

If you have a pic of a 64 with class chalkings and possible ET I’d be most grateful.

I had to use a pic of the GeeTO promo car!

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Rat Patrol

If you have a pic of a 64 with class chalkings and possible ET I’d be most grateful.

I had to use a pic of the GeeTO promo car!

Well, the pics I have of NHRA '64 GTO Stockers don't have chalk markings. But I do have pics of 3, which had B/S PAINTED on 'em. Assume all 3 were Tri-Power cars.

None have an ET marked on 'em. The pic of the Gay Pontiac GTO was very small, since it was part of a pic of their 3-car hauler rig. But, it does have B/S on it. The Packer Pontiac GTO LOOKS like a serious Stocker. But I don't know how quick it was. Assume there were some running mid 12's.

The "Lil 2 Speed" car apparently ran AHRA, which had different rules. So the chalk markings are quite different than NHRA markings. I think they could run one 2-barrel carb, or one 4-barrel carb, or multiple carbs, with the same car. It would just be in a different class, with each carb set-up.

[oldskool]

I assume I'm probably the last guy to know about this.

But, just in case I'm not, & somebody else might get some use out of it, this appears to be pdf versions of '58 thru '69 NHRA rule books.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2006u57wp...myEgvaR8KYSowa

Sure would like to find access to lots of old ND papers, to get nat record info & race results from.

[Rat Patrol]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Well, the pics I have of NHRA '64 GTO Stockers don't have chalk markings. But I do have pics of 3, which had B/S PAINTED on 'em. Assume all 3 were Tri-Power cars.

None have an ET marked on 'em. The pic of the Gay Pontiac GTO was very small, since it was part of a pic of their 3-car hauler rig. But, it does have B/S on it. The Packer Pontiac GTO LOOKS like a serious Stocker. But I don't know how quick it was. Assume there were some running mid 12's.

The "Lil 2 Speed" car apparently ran AHRA, which had different rules. So the chalk markings are quite different than NHRA markings. I think they could run one 2-barrel carb, or one 4-barrel carb, or multiple carbs, with the same car. It would just be in a different class, with each carb set-up.

Gays was a 62 Ventura. I believe, ran A/Stock in 63, B/Stock in 64.

The Papoose is what I was looking for. B/Stock would seem to be the right fit for the car in 64- although I don’t know the quoted weight so can’t consult the charts. I’ll assume its what the 64 Goats were slotted into.

[Rat Patrol]

OS - I have a conundrum for you.

In the Pontiac stocker thread, you quote Boyce’s book ( I won’t judge��) as saying this car was totalled in a wreck after coming runner up at Indy in class.

1 SS/S was a one meet, one year class in 62.

2- The winning SS/S cars and r/ups are in my web page, they were Proffits Ventura and Faubels Dodge - both 410/425 hp cars.

3 - This car is depicted as a 368hp 389cui 61 Cat .....

So, it couldn't possibly have run in SS/S in 62 competitively.

Do you think they might have swapped in a 421SD?

Or, is this more Boyce ‘laziness’ where they’ve guessed the driver, car or picture?

Either way, it was not a runner up in SS/S unless it was in disguise!

HOWEVER - There IS a possibility it ran as r/up in A/SA at Indy 62, as a 61 389 34?hp car driven by Ralph Hardt won class...and I have nor record of the r/up.

But surely they didn’t swap out motors at the meet.....which makes me think a different Packer car MAY have run as r/up in A/SA.

Your thoughts?

[oldskool]

Maybe this will help clear it up, some.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2021/421-n...orever-footage

The 421SD engine was available to some racers, to run in their '61 model cars.

“Pontiac is now offering to qualified drivers a 421 cubic inch high-performance engine option. The engine is rated at 373 horsepower and features dual four-barrel carburetors, a solid-lifter camshaft, and high-capacity aluminum exhaust manifolds. The 421 engine is available only with related heavy-duty driveline components. It can be fitted to any Catalina or Ventura 2-door model.”

NOTE: For MOST of the info presented in the Jr. Stock book, or any other drag racing book about stuff that happened back in the early days, I have absolutely no way to tell exactly what info is correct & what info is not correct. So, if I post something that was printed in the book, that was incorrect, I am NOT trying to deceive anyone. Example: The caption of one pic said a car had a 421 engine. IIRC, it was Mark Yacavone who knew the car & said it actually had a 389. I have no way of knowing what engine the car had. Hey, for all I know, the guy may have run both engines, at different times. Lots of drag cars have run different size engines.

Here is a pic of a '61 Packer Pontiac. Has 389 on the side. Could have a 421 under the hood, or not. The 2nd pic is of a '61 Pontiac which has 373hp wrote on it, & A/S on the windshield. I assume it was one of the '61's that got one of the over the counter 421 conversion engines. But, it could actually have had a 389, or the 373hp 421? Point is, writing on the car body doesn't always agree with what engine is actually under the hood. At least, I don't think there was ever a rule about that.

The pics I have of cars which have SS/S on 'em are of '62 models. Several '61's have OS/S on 'em. IIRC, that was a one year class. Pic #4 shows the A/SA car you mentioned. Don't know if it is of the final round you mentioned, or not. If so, looks like the loser was a '61 Pontiac ragtop, #620. Don't know if any of this will help with your fact finding, or not.

[oldskool]

"...Gays was a 62 Ventura. I believe, ran A/Stock in 63, B/Stock in 64..."

Yes, the '62 was in that pic.

BUT, the reason I posted that pic is because it's the only pic I have of the Gay Pontiac '64 GTO. I think Roy Gay drove it. Don Gay drove the '62.

Because the GTO is so small in the only pic I have of it, it gets real fuzzy, as you try to enlarge it, with free online photo resizing sites. But, you can see that it was #657. "Roy Gay" is painted on the door.

[Rat Patrol]

Originally Posted by oldskool

"...Gays was a 62 Ventura. I believe, ran A/Stock in 63, B/Stock in 64..."

Yes, the '62 was in that pic.

BUT, the reason I posted that pic is because it's the only pic I have of the Gay Pontiac '64 GTO. I think Roy Gay drove it. Don Gay drove the '62.

Because the GTO is so small in the only pic I have of it, it gets real fuzzy, as you try to enlarge it, with free online photo resizing sites. But, you can see that it was #657. "Roy Gay" is painted on the door.

Sorry mate, I completely overlooked Roy’s car. Thanks for posting it!

[Rat Patrol]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Maybe this will help clear it up, some.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2021/421-n...orever-footage

The 421SD engine was available to some racers, to run in their '61 model cars.

“Pontiac is now offering to qualified drivers a 421 cubic inch high-performance engine option. The engine is rated at 373 horsepower and features dual four-barrel carburetors, a solid-lifter camshaft, and high-capacity aluminum exhaust manifolds. The 421 engine is available only with related heavy-duty driveline components. It can be fitted to any Catalina or Ventura 2-door model.”

NOTE: For MOST of the info presented in the Jr. Stock book, or any other drag racing book about stuff that happened back in the early days, I have absolutely no way to tell exactly what info is correct & what info is not correct. So, if I post something that was printed in the book, that was incorrect, I am NOT trying to deceive anyone. Example: The caption of one pic said a car had a 421 engine. IIRC, it was Mark Yacavone who knew the car & said it actually had a 389. I have no way of knowing what engine the car had. Hey, for all I know, the guy may have run both engines, at different times. Lots of drag cars have run different size engines.

Here is a pic of a '61 Packer Pontiac. Has 389 on the side. Could have a 421 under the hood, or not. The 2nd pic is of a '61 Pontiac which has 373hp wrote on it, & A/S on the windshield. I assume it was one of the '61's that got one of the over the counter 421 conversion engines. But, it could actually have had a 389, or the 373hp 421? Point is, writing on the car body doesn't always agree with what engine is actually under the hood. At least, I don't think there was ever a rule about that.

The pics I have of cars which have SS/S on 'em are of '62 models. Several '61's have OS/S on 'em. IIRC, that was a one year class. Pic #4 shows the A/SA car you mentioned. Don't know if it is of the final round you mentioned, or not. If so, looks like the loser was a '61 Pontiac ragtop, #620. Don't know if any of this will help with your fact finding, or not.

Thx OS - Understand I’m aware you weren’t ‘inventing things’.

My concern was simply how a a Packker car could get runner up in SS/S...because the results are documented.

For what its worth, I agree they could be running any motor - but IF Boyce is correct about the r/up status....I think its far more likely to have been A/SA.