NHRA ProStock changes coming!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by blkjack

the five year body rule has been gone or do you want to bring it back?

SECTION 16 - PRO STOCK
DESIGNATION
PRO, preceded by car number.
Reserved for 2005 or later NHRA-accepted 2-door or 4-door
coupe or sedan (domestic or foreign) production vehicles

The comment about "the 5 year rule" was simply a suggestion.


I'm not convinced Pro Stock has to have any real changes to survive. The reason I posted what I did was to suggest what could be done to move the class slightly toward a new direction, rather than the wholesale changes being proposed, because a lot of people smarter than I am don't believe Pro Stock could survive massive changes.

It may be that with new leadership, and the new television and promotion package, Pro Stock can become more healthy (read: more competitive teams, and more spectators) without any changes at all.

Having talked to a few Pro Stock racers over the years, I do not think the class could survive the radical changes being proposed by some. Wescott's post pretty much sums it up. If you force racers to throw away the cars they already have, AND their engine programs, the vast majority are done, whether they want to be or not. It simply is not financially feasible. Ken Black might be able to do it, maybe Cagnazzi, Skillman, and possibly Allen Johnson. Few others.

Pro Stock hasn't really been about racing what the factories are selling since around 1973 or so. Remember, they were racing Vegas with 327 small blocks, Pintos with 351C engines, Camaros with 368 big blocks, Hemi powered Arrows, and various other combinations not even remotely like new cars of the time. The closest Pro Stock ever was to what the "race what they sell now" crowd is wanting is in the earliest days, when Jenkins put a tunnel ram on a ZL-1 Super Stock 69 Camaro for match racing. Three years or so later they were racing tube chassis V8 powered econo cars.

A lot of people have been proposing FX classes to showcase the new cars. That's a great idea. I am completely in favor of a new FX class that showcases the new cars. But it is completely wrong to try to force Pro Stock to become that FX class.

I find it sort of bizarre, and somewhat amusing, that some people, who do not race Pro Stock, out and out demand that people already racing Pro Stock throw away millions of dollars of equipment, so that the people who do not race Pro Stock can have a class that they want to see, but will not invest a dime in racing in.

[randy wilson]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The comment about "the 5 year rule" was simply a suggestion.


I'm not convinced Pro Stock has to have any real changes to survive. The reason I posted what I did was to suggest what could be done to move the class slightly toward a new direction, rather than the wholesale changes being proposed, because a lot of people smarter than I am don't believe Pro Stock could survive massive changes.

It may be that with new leadership, and the new television and promotion package, Pro Stock can become more healthy (read: more competitive teams, and more spectators) without any changes at all.

Having talked to a few Pro Stock racers over the years, I do not think the class could survive the radical changes being proposed by some. Wescott's post pretty much sums it up. If you force racers to throw away the cars they already have, AND their engine programs, the vast majority are done, whether they want to be or not. It simply is not financially feasible. Ken Black might be able to do it, maybe Cagnazzi, Skillman, and possibly Allen Johnson. Few others.

Pro Stock hasn't really been about racing what the factories are selling since around 1973 or so. Remember, they were racing Vegas with 327 small blocks, Pintos with 351C engines, Camaros with 368 big blocks, Hemi powered Arrows, and various other combinations not even remotely like new cars of the time. The closest Pro Stock ever was to what the "race what they sell now" crowd is wanting is in the earliest days, when Jenkins put a tunnel ram on a ZL-1 Super Stock 69 Camaro for match racing. Three years or so later they were racing tube chassis V8 powered econo cars.

A lot of people have been proposing FX classes to showcase the new cars. That's a great idea. I am completely in favor of a new FX class that showcases the new cars. But it is completely wrong to try to force Pro Stock to become that FX class.

I find it sort of bizarre, and somewhat amusing, that some people, who do not race Pro Stock, out and out demand that people already racing Pro Stock throw away millions of dollars of equipment, so that the people who do not race Pro Stock can have a class that they want to see, but will not invest a dime in racing in.

Good post.

[skills]

Mr. Wescott I am just a fan and don't have any skin in the game. I don't understand the technically of the cars, but enjoy class racing and Pro Stock. I would love to see large pro stock fields as much as anybody here. I agree with what you say, but I think things can be perhaps middle ground. How about NHRA gather the racers and the manufacturers together and find out what is best for both. Maybe change to anybody style which would let some of the import companies in also. I drive a Mazda but I cheer for anything Mopar since my dad has a super bee. Younger people understand and love muscle cars we just can't afford them. Nhra has to go out and promote the show not just fuel but all of it. What NHRA needs to do is make a day at the track the greatest thing around and portray that through people's tv that can't be there. That will add more sponsor get more manufacture money and more fans and racers. Pro stock is great we just need more of it.

[Mile High]

I've always wondered why NHRA starts their Sunday show with the fuel dragsters. Why start with the fastest cars on the property. Start with Pro Stock Bike or Pro Stock then get faster. After the casual spectator sees the fuel cars the "slow" Pro Stock stuff is boring. Also they wouldn't have to change the run order for the finals.

Jeff

[Mile High]

Originally Posted by Mile High

I've always wondered why NHRA starts their Sunday show with the fuel dragsters. Why start with the fastest cars on the property. Start with Pro Stock Bike or Pro Stock then get faster. After the casual spectator sees the fuel cars the "slow" Pro Stock stuff is boring. Also they wouldn't have to change the run order for the finals.

Jeff

Think they said Rodger Brogdon sold his stuff to Richard Freeman (Elite Motorsports) too. Another one bites the dust.

It was wrong to make the changes with consulting the teams in the class.

[jaythorne]

Best rule would be an rpm limit... Fuel injection optional... Real racers won't like losing with a pencil stroke and will go home

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I find it sort of bizarre, and somewhat amusing, that some people, who do not race Pro Stock, out and out demand that people already racing Pro Stock throw away millions of dollars of equipment, so that the people who do not race Pro Stock can have a class that they want to see, but will not invest a dime in racing in.

Alan , only you would find it "bizarre and "amusing".
What so bizarre and amusing? Rules changes to a class that's waaay overdue? Yeah , thats pretty "bizarre" and "amusing".
Forget about engines that are "EXACT" to production platforms , BECAUSE A 500 INCH ENGINE SURE AS HELL ISNT...............it doesn''t matter that Ford doesn't have a good 2 valve combo , or Dodge or whatever. I'm talking purpose built race engines on a smaller scale. The 500 inch engines are so far removed from anything production...... AT A MINIMUM wholesale changes need to be made to represent todays engine displacements closer to 350 -427 inches...then add fuel injection......whatever. Carbs have to go. Its really very simple and some of you seem to over dramatize or attempt to complicate a simple solution........forget about the Pintos , Vega's and Arrows , EXPs.
Settle on " A " displacement more indicative of todays cars. The changes about Pro Stock cannot be an intention to make a change while keeping those participating happy at the exclusion of attracting new participants.
And theres a fine line between exclusion and extinction.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by joespanova

Alan , only you would find it "bizarre and "amusing".
What so bizarre and amusing? Rules changes to a class that's waaay overdue? Yeah , thats pretty "bizarre" and "amusing".
Forget about engines that are "EXACT" to production platforms , BECAUSE A 500 INCH ENGINE SURE AS HELL ISNT...............it doesn''t matter that Ford doesn't have a good 2 valve combo , or Dodge or whatever. I'm talking purpose built race engines on a smaller scale. The 500 inch engines are so far removed from anything production...... AT A MINIMUM wholesale changes need to be made to represent todays engine displacements closer to 350 -427 inches...then add fuel injection......whatever. Carbs have to go. Its really very simple and some of you seem to over dramatize or attempt to complicate a simple solution........forget about the Pintos , Vega's and Arrows , EXPs.
Settle on " A " displacement more indicative of todays cars. The changes about Pro Stock cannot be an intention to make a change while keeping those participating happy at the exclusion of attracting new participants.
And theres a fine line between exclusion and extinction.

What I find amusing is that you seem to be willing to spend other people's money, and force them to submit to your demands, in a class they race in. Do you participate in Pro Stock? Do you have money in the class?

Exactly what is it that makes you think that Pro Stock needs to represent current production engines? It has not done that in a solid 40 years, and the class is not dead yet.

There is nothing simple about what you propose. I guess you didn't read what Wescott wrote. Either that or it just doesn't matter to you that your "simple solution" just completely kills his massive investment of cash and time. Yeah, you telling Wescott, and a couple dozen other struggling Pro Stock racers to go get screwed "because the class has to change", at least according to you, isn't dramatic. At least not to you, since you don't have $250K+ tied up in a racing operation and your struggling to stay in the game. I'm sure it is real simple to you to just rewrite all the rules, and render their massive investment completely worthless. They won't find their life's investment going down the toilet to be the slightest bit dramatic.

It's always great when people come along and tell you that you must allow them to completely change the very character of something you do in order for them to "save it". I'm sure the Pro Stock racers are thrilled to have you decide for them what should go on in their class.

What is next for you? Are you going to tell Force, Schumacer, and Kalitta, among others, that they must convert to 4 valve per cylinder DOHC I4 and V6 engines, gasoline, and turbochargers? I mean, after all, they're racing those dinosaur engines with those monster superchargers that are nothing like what the factories are producing.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

What I find amusing is that you seem to be willing to spend other people's money, and force them to submit to your demands, in a class they race in. Do you participate in Pro Stock? Do you have money in the class?

Exactly what is it that makes you think that Pro Stock needs to represent current production engines? It has not done that in a solid 40 years, and the class is not dead yet.

There is nothing simple about what you propose. I guess you didn't read what Wescott wrote. Either that or it just doesn't matter to you that your "simple solution" just completely kills his massive investment of cash and time. Yeah, you telling Wescott, and a couple dozen other struggling Pro Stock racers to go get screwed "because the class has to change", at least according to you, isn't dramatic. At least not to you, since you don't have $250K+ tied up in a racing operation and your struggling to stay in the game. I'm sure it is real simple to you to just rewrite all the rules, and render their massive investment completely worthless. They won't find their life's investment going down the toilet to be the slightest bit dramatic.

It's always great when people come along and tell you that you must allow them to completely change the very character of something you do in order for them to "save it". I'm sure the Pro Stock racers are thrilled to have you decide for them what should go on in their class.

What is next for you? Are you going to tell Force, Schumacer, and Kalitta, among others, that they must convert to 4 valve per cylinder DOHC I4 and V6 engines, gasoline, and turbochargers? I mean, after all, they're racing those dinosaur engines with those monster superchargers that are nothing like what the factories are producing.

Well Alan.....let the NHRA decide..........apparently they seem to see things with a "winds of change" mindset.
You embrace the "status quo" ...........the "status quo" isn't working.
Like it or not , it needs to change.

Originally Posted by joespanova

Alan , only you would find it "bizarre and "amusing".
What so bizarre and amusing? Rules changes to a class that's waaay overdue? Yeah , thats pretty "bizarre" and "amusing".
Forget about engines that are "EXACT" to production platforms , BECAUSE A 500 INCH ENGINE SURE AS HELL ISNT...............it doesn''t matter that Ford doesn't have a good 2 valve combo , or Dodge or whatever. I'm talking purpose built race engines on a smaller scale. The 500 inch engines are so far removed from anything production...... AT A MINIMUM wholesale changes need to be made to represent todays engine displacements closer to 350 -427 inches...then add fuel injection......whatever. Carbs have to go. Its really very simple and some of you seem to over dramatize or attempt to complicate a simple solution........forget about the Pintos , Vega's and Arrows , EXPs.
Settle on " A " displacement more indicative of todays cars. The changes about Pro Stock cannot be an intention to make a change while keeping those participating happy at the exclusion of attracting new participants.
And theres a fine line between exclusion and extinction.

How about the new cars starting their own say, F/PS class and evolving like PS has? After all they are all using current PS technology. I think it would be great. PS might...., need a little tweaking but not from the new factory cars. PS cars are light years ahead of them.

I got the memo Alan! I am ready!