Junior Stock vs IHRA Pure Stock

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Billy, I have been running Stock since 19(and oh)72.
Started with a 64 Impala SS, then 68 GTO and then bought Bob LaSala 1969 Impala.
It is going though a full frame off restoration actually 3rd rebuild.
Been picking Bob Benders mind on what he has done to his ride.

Actually won Stock at Commerce in 1980 and NHRA Points Meet at Moroso in 1983 then had to leave travel racing for while.

In the meantime running PS with the 95 Impala SS.
Been racing as a Bolt On Racer with ECIRS for 10+ years.

The engine had 190K miles, been 13.30's so it was a natural fit for PS.
Had Jeff Warren build a Legal engine, cars was aleady class legal.

Things like a divorce, new jobs, new wife and kid and starting an IT Business sort of slowed things up.

Being a business guy always thinking about business, marketing, ideas.
Example, I played soccer in Central Florida, when I moved back to South Florida I could not find or start a team.
I did play pick up games with ABB, Motorola, Bendix and Racal Milgo.
So I started a Corporate Soccer league for them that is going strong today.

My idea was basically changing the name Pure Stock to Junior Stock.
Pure Stock in Roundy racing has their concept and image,
Junior Stock has a different but meaningful image for drag racing.

Then there is the complaining about the cost of Stock.
Especially the rule you have to use the track fuel.
Already got a few rules changed at NHRA and IHRA.

For example if IHRA would allow integrated Electric Water Pumps more Stockers could naturally move to Pure Stock err Junior Stock .

Dan

There you go......You are already trying to change the rules of the class. More money ! Elec. water pumps and drives were NOT used in the Jr. stock days. If the water pump drives are used then the index's should be lowered at min. a full tenth as thats what they are worth. Thats one reason why stock is so screwed up and expensive today. Rule change after rule change of some sort happening almost every week happening all over again. Get the name changed if thats what makes you happy but leave the up grading the rules to the IHRA or run a so called "stocker". IHRA used to have the two seperated many years ago but due to lack of participation the pure? stockers were included to give them a place to run instead of outlawing a class of racers.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

There you go......You are already trying to change the rules of the class. More money ! Elec. water pumps and drives were NOT used in the Jr. stock days. If the water pump drives are used then the index's should be lowered at min. a full tenth as thats what they are worth. Thats one reason why stock is so screwed up and expensive today. Rule change after rule change of some sort happening almost every week happening all over again. Get the name changed if thats what makes you happy but leave the up grading the rules to the IHRA or run a so called "stocker". IHRA used to have the two seperated many years ago but due to lack of participation the pure? stockers were included to give them a place to run instead of outlawing a class of racers.

OK I understand that..but we are always spending money on our beests.

But on my car, we are not allowed to use an Electric Water Pump but Stockers do.
Cool down is a pain and it would be a natural upgrade.

However allowing them would not be an expense for a Stocker to run PS.
Otherwise you would have to put a stock one on your car.
Just thinking of a natural way to allow a car to move in between.

The advantage for LT 1 engines is that the Water Pump Motors integrate with the WP and reliable to drive to the track.
Which is one feature PS is all about.

Do not think the Index would need to change, do not think there is a tenth. But if that is the common experience then so be it.

FWIW it would be a more reliable set up to manage heat making PS equally competitive to Stockers.

BTW hope your Thanksgiving was fun.

D

[X-TECH MAN]

It dosent matter to me anymore anyway. I find that street rodding is more fun these days but maybe not as exciting as a high RPM launch. Just pointing out how some want to keep "Upgrading" things until you have what you have in todays stock elim. Now you have cars that were never lisenced or titled for the street running in the 8's with blowers !. Todays stockers are much wilder than the S/S cars of yesterday. Now you can even have aftermarket racing seats so other than the 9 inch tire your stuck with you have the SUPER STOCK LOOK of today.
Best way to go about it would be to contact IHRA's Mike Baker and get a list of pure stockers that have maintained their membership and car number the last few years and take a vote on who and how many want to up grade. Present it to Mike Baker and see how it goes. When I was racing Jr. stock until 1972 and later in S/S I found the elec waterpump drive to be worth a min of .10 to .12 after they were allowed on my 7200 RPM S/S (late 70's era) Chevy small block. Of course in todays S/S the same combo turns in excess of 9000 RPM due to "UpGrading. The higher the RPM range the more you gain due to the amount of HP required to turn the pump and push the water. That was with a water pump that had every other vane ground off to cut the resistance. You still need to have the specs for spring pressures, duration and overlap on the later combos which IHRA does not have for most if the class is to be what its supposed to be plus the knowledgeable tech crew required to check a cam and spring pressures at open and closed heights. Best way out is to eliminate the pure stocks all together and make them all "stockers". To much cheating going on anyway and not enough people to keep track of whats going on. Thats how the any torque converter and reground cams came to be in factory stock (or pure stock as its now called). Converters could be made by competent manufactures to make them do whatever was needed. It was hell checking the OEM cam shaft in some combos. Not enough hours in a week much less on a Friday or Sat, evening. Been there and done that.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

It dosent matter to me anymore anyway. I find that street rodding is more fun these days but maybe not as exciting as a high RPM launch. Just pointing out how some want to keep "Upgrading" things until you have what you have in todays stock elim. Now you have cars that were never lisenced or titled for the street running in the 8's with blowers !. Todays stockers are much wilder than the S/S cars of yesterday. Now you can even have aftermarket racing seats so other than the 9 inch tire your stuck with you have the SUPER STOCK LOOK of today.
Best way to go about it would be to contact IHRA's Mike Baker and get a list of pure stockers that have maintained their membership and car number the last few years and take a vote on who and how many want to up grade. Present it to Mike Baker and see how it goes. When I was racing Jr. stock until 1972 and later in S/S I found the elec waterpump drive to be worth a min of .10 to .12 after they were allowed on my 7200 RPM S/S (late 70's era) Chevy small block. Of course in todays S/S the same combo turns in excess of 9000 RPM due to "UpGrading. The higher the RPM range the more you gain due to the amount of HP required to turn the pump and push the water. That was with a water pump that had every other vane ground off to cut the resistance. You still need to have the specs for spring pressures, duration and overlap on the later combos which IHRA does not have for most if the class is to be what its supposed to be plus the knowledgeable tech crew required to check a cam and spring pressures at open and closed heights. Best way out is to eliminate the pure stocks all together and make them all "stockers". To much cheating going on anyway and not enough people to keep track of whats going on. Thats how the any torque converter and reground cams came to be in factory stock (or pure stock as its now called). Converters could be made by competent manufactures to make them do whatever was needed. It was hell checking the OEM cam shaft in some combos. Not enough hours in a week much less on a Friday or Sat, evening. Been there and done that.

But you are kind of making my point.
AND I will talk to Mike Baker he is a thoughtful person.

A while back made a suggestion about Certified Cams and Springs and Engines to simpify Tear down.

Suggested a roving Tear Down Specialist go to specific meeting places to Seal and Certifiy cars as legal.

This would improve race day efficiencies and more people would be modivated to set national records.
Mine got burried but still aiming to make one.

FWIW I drive not tow my car to all the races.
It is Street Legal and sometimes passes emmisions.
Have to retune it but it will pass with the Bullet PS Cam.
Yeah it does have a Yank converter with Lock up.
In fact with street radials, using Belsteins it makes a great Autocross car.

In that sense I am meeting the concept of a Street can become racer.
Cost are lower than most racer, mileage near 20mpg, small foot print at the racetrack, do have to be fit to change tires.
The trunk is so big I can carry everything I need to race.

I get the fact that Stock is a bigger tire, valve trane and cam to Super Stock.
The fact that prepared Factory Hotrods can be bought race ready again, except this time it is not a (wink wink) hidden secret.

I think IHRA has thoughtfully considered what Stock today should be.
Like the fact you can put a V8 in a Vega or Maverick.
Smart moves to expand the base of cars over the more popular cars like Camaro and Mustangs.

I wrote a full page opinion in Super Stock Drag Illustrated way back when about Stock and updating the class for the future.

Interesting IHRA probably already thinking in that direction did 90% of what I suggested.

Dan


BTW I thank you for opinion you are giving me valid feedback.