64 Plymouth GT/EA in Ennis

[John Lang]

X-Tech nab, I hate to say your wrong, BUT, 64 Ply & Dodge Hemi cars had hinged hoods, with very lite springs ! Two guys from my home had HEMI cars in 64, 1 had the alum package, in a Savoy, the other had the HEMI in a 64 Belvedere 2 Dr Htp which was a Steel car, except for the Scoop Which was Alum !! There was only 13 HEMI cars built with the Steel Package in the only available body which was a BELVEDERE 2 Dr HTP ! Dodge also built the STEEL version using the 440 2 Dr HTp, and the HEMI ,also with the Alum scoop ! Dodge also built approx 13 Steel cars, the rest of the HEMI cars had the THE ALUM package ........! Later,,,,,,,, John

[Stewart Way]

Although the rule book says any production V8 of the same make, year optional, there is another unwritten rule. If the car you run in GT has a functional hoodscoop your engine combo has to have come from a fresh air combo. At least that is what Bruce Bachelder has told me. For the Mopar, anything from 340 up was available with a shaker in 70 and the Chally Drag Pac engines will work.

[2021STK]

Originally Posted by Stewart Way

Although the rule book says any production V8 of the same make, year optional, there is another unwritten rule. If the car you run in GT has a functional hoodscoop your engine combo has to have come from a fresh air combo. At least that is what Bruce Bachelder has told me. For the Mopar, anything from 340 up was available with a shaker in 70 and the Chally Drag Pac engines will work.

I just asked NHRA tech this week at Dinwiddie about fresh air in GT classes. I was told the engine going in the car had to have fresh air as original/optional equipment to run it in GT with a fresh air hood. This sounds Ok but what about a car that had a fresh air hood as original equipment with another engine? I was given the answer "it's a gray area, I'll look into it", fair enough. I don't know how you can configure a car body/hood for fresh air that didn't have it as original equipment, way out example: L88 in a Cobalt. I could see a fresh air body/hood with a different engine, wayout example#2: '68 Hemi 'Cuda body with a 273. Might be that the original engine & body BOTH had to have fresh air to be legal in GT. I thought this came up before on the forum but I couldn't find a link to it, can anybody help out?

Thanks,
Dave Outten

[Jared Jordan]

For what it's worth:

It's the ex-Chuck Rayburn, ex-Jim Hale '64 Hemi car. Jim ran it for a few years in the early part of the decade and then Chuck acquired it and ran it for some time. Recently, Chuck and Jim swapped cars with Chuck receiving a '68 Cuda for SS/AH competition.

I believe in GT/EA that it's a 383 combo which, if it's the 300 Hp combo, would only need to weigh 3170 for that class.

[Stewart Way]

Dave
The rulebook does not allow the addition of scoops on a GT car. The GT section 9B says "The requirements and specifications for GT classes are the same as those for Super Stock classes - Section 9A - with the following exceptions:" and there are no exceptions for hoodscoops in the GT section 9B. There is, however, a phrase in SS Section 9A "Hood openings and/or hood scoops other than original equipment prohibited.". It would appear that those two statements eliminate the ability to add fresh air to a non fresh air car. Nothing I see keeps someone from running the fresh air engine in a non fresh air car , just no fresh air.

[Adger Smith]

How does it work going the other way?? Like a 69 Vette body W/L-88 fresh air hood and a '66 327 engine that was not equipped with fresh air... would that be allowed in GT classes? It seems to me like the precedent is already set. It has already been done/allowed with the 69 Camaro running cowl induction hoods with non fresh air engine combos in Stock, SS and SS/GT. Is a Mopar and Fomoco "forward facing scoop" really a different application than some of the cowl or rear facing fresh air systems from other MFG's? It's all about cool clean air, no matter how you get it.
The way I read the rule book using a fresh air body with a non fresh air engine should be allowed.
Because:
1. When you pick a body for the GT class It says nothing in the rules about limiting the bodies to non fresh air applications.
2. When you pick an engine. It clearly says under engine:1 V-8 only; must be same make as body.Year optional. Engine must be listed in both the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide and NHRA Blueprint Bulletins. Again it says nothing about limiting it to non Fresh Air engines

GT classes Mix combinations of bodies and engines. If it is allowed one way, it should be allowed going the other way. .

I really don't see that there is a problem with any "Body Package" that was produced by a MFG running any "Engine Combination" that was produced by the same MFG. as long as they are listed in the applicable NHRA guides.
Maybe we should go back as far as the inception of the GT Classes to see the "intent". Which I thought was to allow the mixing of SS engine combos and body combinations that weren't available with each other. Our resident GT historian Don Kennedy might be able to shine a little more light on the reason for GT Classes.

[2021STK]

Stewart, I do understand no scoops are allowed to be added in GT, I was just trying to illustrate/exaggerate the fresh air engine concept in a non-fresh air body for the sake of this conversation.

Adger, I agree with your view 100%, that is exactly the way I read the rulebook. In fact the '69 Corvette L88 hooded car was the example I used in Dinwiddie this weekend at tech. I hadn't seen a '69 Camaro with a cowl hood yet in GT but that is an identical situation that I'm trying to clarify, I appreciate you pointing that out.

Thanks guys,
Dave

[mopar68]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

Maybe we should go back as far as the inception of the GT Classes to see the "intent". Which I thought was to allow the mixing of SS engine combos and body combinations that weren't available with each other. Our resident GT historian Don Kennedy might be able to shine a little more light on the reason for GT Classes.

Yeah, maybe we should: The original Super Stock GT classes were designed for early-model engines in late-model cars. Period. Nothing else!!

M68

[Don Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

How does it work going the other way?? Like a 69 Vette body W/L-88 fresh air hood and a '66 327 engine that was not equipped with fresh air... would that be allowed in GT classes? It seems to me like the precedent is already set. It has already been done/allowed with the 69 Camaro running cowl induction hoods with non fresh air engine combos in Stock, SS and SS/GT. Is a Mopar and Fomoco "forward facing scoop" really a different application than some of the cowl or rear facing fresh air systems from other MFG's? It's all about cool clean air, no matter how you get it.
The way I read the rule book using a fresh air body with a non fresh air engine should be allowed.
Because:
1. When you pick a body for the GT class It says nothing in the rules about limiting the bodies to non fresh air applications.
2. When you pick an engine. It clearly says under engine:1 V-8 only; must be same make as body.Year optional. Engine must be listed in both the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide and NHRA Blueprint Bulletins. Again it says nothing about limiting it to non Fresh Air engines

GT classes Mix combinations of bodies and engines. If it is allowed one way, it should be allowed going the other way. .

I really don't see that there is a problem with any "Body Package" that was produced by a MFG running any "Engine Combination" that was produced by the same MFG. as long as they are listed in the applicable NHRA guides.
Maybe we should go back as far as the inception of the GT Classes to see the "intent". Which I thought was to allow the mixing of SS engine combos and body combinations that weren't available with each other. Our resident GT historian Don Kennedy might be able to shine a little more light on the reason for GT Classes.

If I recall when I submitted the rules for the GT classes.the only change is the engine .now if the body came with a scoop then that was allowed , no body parts could not be moved from one car the old one ,to the new body now there are hoods that were made for special applications to be put on a certain body for racing as an example My Sunfire. Pontiac had a private company make hoods for road racing .then .the road racing endeavor did not materialize . Now Pontiac is no longer in business . There is a lot of examples like this by the manufacturers I have a letter saying the Hood was made for Pontiac from the main Pontiac executive that was involved with the racing

[Terry Cain]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

How does it work going the other way?? Like a 69 Vette body W/L-88 fresh air hood and a '66 327 engine that was not equipped with fresh air... would that be allowed in GT classes? It seems to me like the precedent is already set. It has already been done/allowed with the 69 Camaro running cowl induction hoods with non fresh air engine combos in Stock, SS and SS/GT. Is a Mopar and Fomoco "forward facing scoop" really a different application than some of the cowl or rear facing fresh air systems from other MFG's? It's all about cool clean air, no matter how you get it.
The way I read the rule book using a fresh air body with a non fresh air engine should be allowed.
Because:
1. When you pick a body for the GT class It says nothing in the rules about limiting the bodies to non fresh air applications.
2. When you pick an engine. It clearly says under engine:1 V-8 only; must be same make as body.Year optional. Engine must be listed in both the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide and NHRA Blueprint Bulletins. Again it says nothing about limiting it to non Fresh Air engines

GT classes Mix combinations of bodies and engines. If it is allowed one way, it should be allowed going the other way. .

I really don't see that there is a problem with any "Body Package" that was produced by a MFG running any "Engine Combination" that was produced by the same MFG. as long as they are listed in the applicable NHRA guides.
Maybe we should go back as far as the inception of the GT Classes to see the "intent". Which I thought was to allow the mixing of SS engine combos and body combinations that weren't available with each other. Our resident GT historian Don Kennedy might be able to shine a little more light on the reason for GT Classes.

So, I'm reading this to mean I can run my 69 Corvette L-88 car with the fresh air hood and a 283?