National Records

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Hey THANKS guys ! Ya'll have provided a lot of great info.

I'm real surprised at the info in this post. I just assumed that the winner of every national and divisional would be torn down. Does that mean that only record setting cars are even checked at divisional races ? Does that mean that some of the cars could be running too many cubes and it would never even be checked ?

If this is the case, do ya'll think it's because of the bracket racing nature of class racing now ? Or maybe because the payouts are so low ? Or maybe a combination of things ?

The only negative I can see about somebody running an illegal engine is in the case of a same class, heads up run. In that case it wouldn't seem fair to the other guy IF he is running legal.

Having been around some dirt racing, I know how some guys will fudge all they can get by with.

So, nowadays, is it just assumed that most everybody who runs just the divisional races are fudging a little and most don't really care that much ?

Hey, I'm just trying to learn all I can about how things operate in class racing today. And I can't think of a better way to learn than to ask those who do it. So, thanks again guys for sharing all this info !

There is another way someone can be tore down. The car can be protested.

[Carguy49]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

I've set records, had to tear down and we were legal. It's not for everyone but its a great feeling to take the record away from someone. Its a sad day when someone beats your record, but its also a day of earned respect to the racer who bested my performance.


For me its worth all the effort !

Very good point Larry. I have talked with some of the record setting racers here in Div. 6 and they said the same thing. It is the self satisfaction of making your combo fast. Being number 1 in qualifying is pretty cool, also.


Hey Larry, when will we see the truck back out?? I love the truck.

[GTX JOHN]

The Div. 7 director has a policy of no teardowns by protest in
our division.

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Hey THANKS guys ! Ya'll have provided a lot of great info.

I'm real surprised at the info in this post. I just assumed that the winner of every national and divisional would be torn down. Does that mean that only record setting cars are even checked at divisional races ? Does that mean that some of the cars could be running too many cubes and it would never even be checked ?

If this is the case, do ya'll think it's because of the bracket racing nature of class racing now ? Or maybe because the payouts are so low ? Or maybe a combination of things ?

The only negative I can see about somebody running an illegal engine is in the case of a same class, heads up run. In that case it wouldn't seem fair to the other guy IF he is running legal.

Having been around some dirt racing, I know how some guys will fudge all they can get by with.

So, nowadays, is it just assumed that most everybody who runs just the divisional races are fudging a little and most don't really care that much ?

Hey, I'm just trying to learn all I can about how things operate in class racing today. And I can't think of a better way to learn than to ask those who do it. So, thanks again guys for sharing all this info !

Oldskool

Thanks for your interest in our type of racing.
Its very few and far between that a racer gets torn down and something is found to be illegal. if something is found its usually something very minor and would not have helped the car to be faster.
The vast majority of stock and super stock racers have very high ethics and do not intentionally cheat. That is the meaning of "Class Racers" they have class. There are grey areas in the rules that the go fast guys will exploit. This is a widely accepted practice and this is usually where the rule changes get started from. Most of the stock and super stock racers are very protective of their reputation and would not risk that by intentionally cheating. I have never heard of a tear down in recent history where someone was running the wrong size or was claiming the completely wrong engine
Stock and super stock racers accept that there are rules in our classes and try to run as fast as possible within the confines of those rules. That is one of the attraction for the guys/girls that compete in our world.

[Joe Schaechter]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

I've set records, had to tear down and we were legal. It's not for everyone but its a great feeling to take the record away from someone. Its a sad day when someone beats your record, but its also a day of earned respect to the racer who bested my performance.


For me its worth all the effort !

We've set records multiple times through the years and the have never worried about the cost of the gaskets! In 2014 Jim and I both set records at the Joliet Division 3 race. I was in our Chevy II in F/S and Jim drove Bob and Cherie Gipson's Corvette in A/S. We tore down both cars and had to borrow tools back and forth to get it done! Would I do it again? You bet!

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

There is another way someone can be tore down. The car can be protested.

So, since at least one division has a policy of "no teardowns by protest", does that mean it's up to the division director whether to allow protest teardowns or not ?

That brings up another question. For the divisions where protest teardowns do take place, are the protests directed at those who are not included among the regular division racers. Or do the regulars normally protest each other, if they think they may be fudging a bit ?

I understand about being protested at your local track, if you are not in good with the group. Our '68 E/SA Bird was protested at our local track, after winning the 1st five races of the season in a row. Not only were we not in good with the locals, but we were racing a Pontiac, and it had a female driver. Both of those things made the local boys mad, especially the Chevy guys.

Anyhow, the engine was legal, so a protest was OK with me. But the tech guys didn't know a thing about a Pontiac engine, so they didn't attempt a teardown. They just put it on the scales. Well, since I hadn't stripped out all the street stuff, I assumed the car was probably overweight by quite a bit. But they claimed it was under by just a few pounds. So, I put a spare tire and jack in the trunk, and it didn't slow down at all, that you could notice. Was still the quickest car at our local track, and won the LA State Championship race there, about mid season. But we were definitely not the most popular racers at our local track.

[ALMACK]

Attempting to set records is not for everyone.

There are a few that do enjoy the challenge and are willing to spend a few hours turning wrenches while breaking some sweat.

For me, it's all about seeing if I can succeed at accomplishing a mission.

I was fortunate the first time I set records in that I had an experienced ( and knowledgeable) record setter to help assist me.
That helps.

[Bimbo Jones]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I would say that most guys don't want to go through the hassle of tearing down the engine. Cost is high for gaskets and its a lot of work for basically no reward. Some racers don't build their own engines and do not have the mechanical ability to go through the tear down procedure. Most of us have been there and done that and have our certificates hung on the wall. Now we would just rather race and go some rounds.

Mike you nailed it for me. I love racing but I'm not that good at the mechanic side of things. This totally scared me off from class racing plus the cost of traveling in the division. So I became an bracket racer, same driving skill set and I get to race almost weekly. But I still like to keep up with y'all and hope to give it a try again someday.

[GEORGE PETERSON]

Can anyone name another sport where performance records expire?
Babe Ruth still holds records he set in 1921.

George Peterson
D/S 4448

[Kevin Panzino]

George, I personally think it is a very good thing that records expire in the case of class racing. Because when a unfairly factored combination sets a record it could stick for a very very long time, which would be entirely disheartening for people who run legitimate, reasonably and fairly factored combinations..
So let the record expire after a reasonable period of time. In the meantime, hopefully the bogus unfairly factored combination has been properly re-factored. If the person wants to set it the record again, they are of course free to do so.
Or, as is the case recently where a very unfairly factored combination just doesn't get hit, or 'wont' get hit for 'certain' reasons, it gets moved into its own separate classes where it can have fun with other similarly grossly underfactored engines and allow the rest of us with reasonably factored combinations to have a chance.