Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? - Page 9

Jim Hanig · 09-19-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuces wild

If we keep going like this why don't we just say run whatever you want and NHRA can just check cubic inches. I'll say it again Comp here we come. I predict after this gets thru aluminum heads are next.

they already have them in ss. FOR some engines Jim Hanig

FINESPLINE · 09-19-2010, 09:54 PM

I believe the beginning of the problems in super stock was allowing the porting of heads. Without the porting the valvetrain problems go away. In stock the camshaft rule changed the game. Those two rules changed grass roots racing. ----They say you can never go back but if S/SS is to survive it deserves a really good look at its history. --------John

Myron Piatek · 09-19-2010, 10:23 PM

Just to elaborate on what FINESPLINE said, and I'm not saying that I agree with the ongoing "allowances" being made across the board either. But for what it's worth, this has been happening for a long, long time - from the original Pro Stock evolving from Super Stock to todays Stockers being allowed many things that were not allowed on Super Stockers in the '70's. Even today's Super Stockers are much more sophisticated that the early Pro Stockers, not to mention faster. i.e.: SS/AH. I guess NHRA did make a good decision in the the right direction in the '70's when Stockers reverted back to more "stock" parts. But we see how long that lasted. I don't know what can be done. Just pointing out that history keeps repeating itself.

I am guessing, however, that a big reason NHRA continues these changes is to keep the aftermarket industry busy and involved in drag racing.

Alan Roehrich · 09-19-2010, 11:31 PM

Every illegal part they make legal is just one more part they don't have to pay someone to look for. It's easier to declare it legal than it is to look for it in a 60-100 car field.

It's like every other rule change in the past, it leads to the next one, and the next one, and the one after that. Give them titanium valves and they'll just spin their engines tighter, and they'll find something else they need to take advantage of the new found RPM. If they weren't already allowing porting, welding, and epoxy, there'd be no need.

Ed Carpenter · 09-20-2010, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

But he no longer works National Events !

You know why that is right?

X-TECH MAN · 09-20-2010, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuces wild

You know why that is right?

Yep !

Bobby Fazio · 09-22-2010, 04:26 PM

There is an easy solution to this problem. Take the titanium valves and the Comp cars..excuse me.. I mean the Modified cars that run them, the hemi cars that wish to run them, as well as anyone else who so desires to run them, and put them in a new category called, yep you guessed it.. Modified eliminator! OR just send them up to Competition eliminator where they belong. Everyone's happy.. the engine builders, the racers who want to go fast and spend the extra money, valve manufacturers, etc..

By the way, I got my new National Dragster issue yesterday with the Indy sportsman results and, looking at the cover, for the life of me can't help but wonder how that "snuffaluffagus" hood scoop add-on is legal on that white Comp.. damnit I meant Modified.. car! Twice now, sorry I get confused!

Allen Sherman · 09-22-2010, 10:54 PM

While I really dont care either way if they are allowed or not i can tell all of you that putting a titanium valve in ANY of y'all engines will greatly extend the life cycle of the lifters, springs, rocker arms camshaft and cam bearings. If you look at the big picture of spending a little now or alot later the ti valves are cheaper to run in the long run than a stainless valve in pretty much all current SS engine combinations. And yes i do build the engines in Steve Kents SS/AH car and would have a set in there as soon as they are legalized but not so much for the performance gain as much as for the extension of the valvetrain life. I dont have the luxury of having Jesel or T&D in my pocket like CW and Barton do and i envy those guys for having that luxury so i'll take anything we can get to help out our valvetrain. I do agree that it is killing the "purity" of SS but lets be real, i was still a dirty thought in my dads mind when SS was still "pure"...lol...the class is gonna keep evolving and it's just how it's always been. The bad thing is that there are already Ti valves in alot of SS motors illegally, it's a shame but true, unfortunately tech has a hard time when there are 25+ cars in the barn to police who's sneaking the right valves into the heads before they go to the checking table. It's been that way with lots of things over the years, people are gonna stretch the rules to win and that's never gonna change. So as much as i see alot of y'all points on banning them it's only gonna let the guys that are already sneaking them through to keep whatever performance advantage they gain and the rest of us are gonna keep replacing the lifters, springs, cams, rockers and cam bearings at a more rapid rate than them. Also lets be real, a "good" stainless valve is only about 45-50% cheaper than a Ti valve and when we're talking about SS motors that on the "cheap" side are costing $20 grand whats another $800? I know all about being on a budget but when you look at a savings over time for that extra initial investment its kind of a no brainer. I think alot of times some of us are so resistant to any change that we don't look at the big picture of how it could have positive financial rewards long term. OK i'll get off the soapbox now...

Bernie Cunningham · 09-22-2010, 11:32 PM

Allen, very well put together post and every thing you say is OK.

However, that's exactually the mind set that put Stock and S/stock into the ****ed-up deal we have now !!! Too many big buck guys spending more than Joe Blow, they need to go to Comp where they can spend their collective asses off.

I'm a spending guy lately to go fast but I gotta think I'm done for a while, please give me a break !!! I have no problems with technology, in fact I love it, but it all filters down.

How about ya take something AWAY from ya motor to make it last longer ?????????????????

I couldn't help notice that most of the "Hemi" guys didn't want to run the eliminator at Indy, (a lot didn't even qualifiy) is this the problem ?????

Allen Sherman · 09-22-2010, 11:44 PM

Bernie I'd be all for taking some things AWAY that would even the playing field believe me! I definitely don't enjoy how some of us can't seem to be able to buy parts that others have even when the rule book says parts must be "generally available"...lol...i just think it's gonna happen whether we like it or not and i hope bucks down guys can use these to there advantage and extend valvetrain life for themselves...i'll see u out in vegas and by then we'll be able to really get riled up about this since i'm sure the rule will be either official or deleted by then...later buddy

09-19-2010, 09:54 PM	#82
FINESPLINE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Island of high taxes, N.Y. Posts: 541 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? I believe the beginning of the problems in super stock was allowing the porting of heads. Without the porting the valvetrain problems go away. In stock the camshaft rule changed the game. Those two rules changed grass roots racing. ----They say you can never go back but if S/SS is to survive it deserves a really good look at its history. --------John

09-19-2010, 10:23 PM	#83
Myron Piatek VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,542 Likes: 34 Liked 138 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? Just to elaborate on what FINESPLINE said, and I'm not saying that I agree with the ongoing "allowances" being made across the board either. But for what it's worth, this has been happening for a long, long time - from the original Pro Stock evolving from Super Stock to todays Stockers being allowed many things that were not allowed on Super Stockers in the '70's. Even today's Super Stockers are much more sophisticated that the early Pro Stockers, not to mention faster. i.e.: SS/AH. I guess NHRA did make a good decision in the the right direction in the '70's when Stockers reverted back to more "stock" parts. But we see how long that lasted. I don't know what can be done. Just pointing out that history keeps repeating itself. I am guessing, however, that a big reason NHRA continues these changes is to keep the aftermarket industry busy and involved in drag racing.

09-19-2010, 11:31 PM	#84
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,564 Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts	Re: Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? Every illegal part they make legal is just one more part they don't have to pay someone to look for. It's easier to declare it legal than it is to look for it in a 60-100 car field. It's like every other rule change in the past, it leads to the next one, and the next one, and the one after that. Give them titanium valves and they'll just spin their engines tighter, and they'll find something else they need to take advantage of the new found RPM. If they weren't already allowing porting, welding, and epoxy, there'd be no need. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

09-22-2010, 04:26 PM	#87
Bobby Fazio VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Egg Harbor Township, NJ Posts: 1,467 Likes: 1,444 Liked 4,365 Times in 501 Posts	Re: Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? There is an easy solution to this problem. Take the titanium valves and the Comp cars..excuse me.. I mean the Modified cars that run them, the hemi cars that wish to run them, as well as anyone else who so desires to run them, and put them in a new category called, yep you guessed it.. Modified eliminator! OR just send them up to Competition eliminator where they belong. Everyone's happy.. the engine builders, the racers who want to go fast and spend the extra money, valve manufacturers, etc.. By the way, I got my new National Dragster issue yesterday with the Indy sportsman results and, looking at the cover, for the life of me can't help but wonder how that "snuffaluffagus" hood scoop add-on is legal on that white Comp.. damnit I meant Modified.. car! Twice now, sorry I get confused! __________________ '65 Mustang SS/L & L/SA DriverInterviews.com \| App.DragInsights.com

09-22-2010, 10:54 PM	#88
Allen Sherman Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 147 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? While I really dont care either way if they are allowed or not i can tell all of you that putting a titanium valve in ANY of y'all engines will greatly extend the life cycle of the lifters, springs, rocker arms camshaft and cam bearings. If you look at the big picture of spending a little now or alot later the ti valves are cheaper to run in the long run than a stainless valve in pretty much all current SS engine combinations. And yes i do build the engines in Steve Kents SS/AH car and would have a set in there as soon as they are legalized but not so much for the performance gain as much as for the extension of the valvetrain life. I dont have the luxury of having Jesel or T&D in my pocket like CW and Barton do and i envy those guys for having that luxury so i'll take anything we can get to help out our valvetrain. I do agree that it is killing the "purity" of SS but lets be real, i was still a dirty thought in my dads mind when SS was still "pure"...lol...the class is gonna keep evolving and it's just how it's always been. The bad thing is that there are already Ti valves in alot of SS motors illegally, it's a shame but true, unfortunately tech has a hard time when there are 25+ cars in the barn to police who's sneaking the right valves into the heads before they go to the checking table. It's been that way with lots of things over the years, people are gonna stretch the rules to win and that's never gonna change. So as much as i see alot of y'all points on banning them it's only gonna let the guys that are already sneaking them through to keep whatever performance advantage they gain and the rest of us are gonna keep replacing the lifters, springs, cams, rockers and cam bearings at a more rapid rate than them. Also lets be real, a "good" stainless valve is only about 45-50% cheaper than a Ti valve and when we're talking about SS motors that on the "cheap" side are costing $20 grand whats another $800? I know all about being on a budget but when you look at a savings over time for that extra initial investment its kind of a no brainer. I think alot of times some of us are so resistant to any change that we don't look at the big picture of how it could have positive financial rewards long term. OK i'll get off the soapbox now...

09-22-2010, 11:32 PM	#89
Bernie Cunningham Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 560 Likes: 45 Liked 52 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? Allen, very well put together post and every thing you say is OK. However, that's exactually the mind set that put Stock and S/stock into the ***ed-up deal we have now !!! Too many big buck guys spending more than Joe Blow, they need to go to Comp where they can spend their collective asses off. I'm a spending guy lately to go fast but I gotta think I'm done for a while, please give me a break !!! I have no problems with technology, in fact I love it, but it all filters down. How about ya take something AWAY from ya motor to make it last longer ????????????????? I couldn't help notice that most of the "Hemi" guys didn't want to run the eliminator at Indy, (a lot didn't even qualifiy) is this the problem ????? __________________ Bernie Cunningham 7053 STK Last edited by Bernie Cunningham; 09-22-2010 at 11:46 PM.*

09-22-2010, 11:44 PM	#90
Allen Sherman Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 147 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Titanium Valves Allowed in S/S? Bernie I'd be all for taking some things AWAY that would even the playing field believe me! I definitely don't enjoy how some of us can't seem to be able to buy parts that others have even when the rule book says parts must be "generally available"...lol...i just think it's gonna happen whether we like it or not and i hope bucks down guys can use these to there advantage and extend valvetrain life for themselves...i'll see u out in vegas and by then we'll be able to really get riled up about this since i'm sure the rule will be either official or deleted by then...later buddy