AHFS Changes.

[SDT1DYI]

Can anyone explain what happened with the AHFS changes announced 9-28-2022,
To the lastest 12-6 2022 complete reversal? HP hits and .659 or slower runs do not count against ones average?
I don't understand what NHRA's objective is. We went from run as fast as to want with no HP hits, to the complete opposite in 60 Days.


Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by SDT1DYI

Can anyone explain what happened with the AHFS changes announced 9-28-2022,
To the lastest 12-6 2022 complete reversal?
I don't understand what NHRA's objective is. .


Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620

. BINGO !!!!! They don’t either ….

[J.R. Haddad]

MJ and Steve. I talked to someone at NHRA today, and here are their
thoughts. With the 1.30 cushion, they don't really expect too many
instant hits. However, with the .65 to .85 small window, they don't expect combo's with a lot of cars to be able to repair the average as quickly if at all.
The 350/255 combo was mentioned, no surprise. They get a lot more phone calls of complaint than I would think. And yes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think an overhaul of the SRAC may be in order. I don't know
if it has any teeth, anymore.

J.R.

[SDT1DYI]

Originally Posted by J.R. Haddad

MJ and Steve. I talked to someone at NHRA today, and here are their
thoughts. With the 1.30 cushion, they don't really expect too many
instant hits. However, with the .65 to .85 small window, they don't expect combo's with a lot of cars to be able to repair the average as quickly if at all.
The 350/255 combo was mentioned, no surprise. They get a lot more phone calls of complaint than I would think. And yes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think an overhaul of the SRAC may be in order. I don't know
if it has any teeth, anymore.

J.R.

JR, AHFS is a touchy subject for most as its effects your cars performance and your ability to make it perform to an established measuring stick.
Everyone always says, " Stock is a Performance Based Class" but it does not seem that way by these changes to AHFS.
If the recent changes were driven by competitors who compete in Stock Eliminator, one can only assume their combo will not run the numbers to compete heads up in their division.
Everyone understands, Stock Eliminator needs all the racers, fast and not as fast to compete,
This "Lastest" change to AHFS hurts the fast guys, will cause more lifting at 1,000 ft , (or braking) to protect their current HP rating. It's less costly than spending $$ to go as fast as you did before you had to add that 80.lbs
Maybe it's time to have a personal index in Stock. Let the really fast guys go heads up against each other, no HP hits. The others, estblish a 1-3 tenths personal index on Heads up runs at Divisonal events only.

Just an Idea to consider.

Happy Holidays
Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620




.

[herbjr]

Originally Posted by SDT1DYI

JR, AHFS is a touchy subject for most as its effects your cars performance and your ability to make it perform to an established measuring stick.
Everyone always says, " Stock is a Performance Based Class" but it does not seem that way by these changes to AHFS.
If the recent changes were driven by competitors who compete in Stock Eliminator, one can only assume their combo will not run the numbers to compete heads up in their division.
Everyone understands, Stock Eliminator needs all the racers, fast and not as fast to compete,
This "Lastest" change to AHFS hurts the fast guys, will cause more lifting at 1,000 ft , (or braking) to protect their current HP rating. It's less costly than spending $$ to go as fast as you did before you had to add that 80.lbs
Maybe it's time to have a personal index in Stock. Let the really fast guys go heads up against each other, no HP hits. The others, estblish a 1-3 tenths personal index on Heads up runs at Divisonal events only.

Just an Idea to consider.

Happy Holidays
Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620




.

No to personal Index, that's a trainwreck, stock is complicated enough as it is, I've been away from S and SS for years and my kids are going to be running 2 cars this year and just the approved parts list is like doing algebra. Most don't build their own engines or cars, but as complicated as it is we don't need to make it any more complicated. Everyone loves to say Stock is a performance based class then bitch when their performance gets them HP.

herb jr

[J.R. Haddad]

There is a major disconnect in the goals of the many Stock Eliminator
Racers. There are many who like to run the furthest under and show
their mechanical prowess, those who buy their engines (the majority today),
and those that run 20- 50 under their Indexes. The AHFS as it stands
today is to protect the 20-50 under group. I understand why NHRA does
this, as the first 2 groups are going to keep coming back because we
have a mental disconnect with common sense, and we hate money.
The 3rd group will leave and not return. The dilemma shows when we have
no place to showcase our cars performance. I would like to see more
races with no AHFS, a 64 car field with 80 allowed entry's. Gainsville,
Sportsnationals, Maple Grove, Indy (128 car field) and Dallas. Call them
Big Boy Races or whatever you want, but there needs to be a few places to show off hard work, innovation, talent and yes money.

Thanks,

J.R.

P.S. There are no easy answers, just tough questions.

[B Parker]

Originally Posted by SDT1DYI

Can anyone explain what happened with the AHFS changes announced 9-28-2022,
To the lastest 12-6 2022 complete reversal? HP hits and .659 or slower runs do not count against ones average?
I don't understand what NHRA's objective is. We went from run as fast as to want with no HP hits, to the complete opposite in 60 Days.


Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620

Steve with all the talk last year about Stock and Super/ Stock being a performance Class this just helped do away with it. It appears to me they want us all to have cars that run between .65 and 85 under. Without the mine shaft conditions in there I don't think I'll try to make the Baby Gators the Gainesville Nationals or Indy. If the air is real good at the Baby Gator's which is the case most years and you try hard to win class and go 1.10 under. You will have to play the game the rest of the year trying to fit in that small window of .65 to .85. It will also help kill class at Indy. Didn't they see the turnout at Indy last year. And the times cars ran compared to the last couple of years. If they were going to put that small of a window in. It would have been nice to have mineshaft conditions. But keep the 1.30 instant hit in. But then again what do I know I've only been doing this for 45 years.

There were 969 Stockers that ran at least one race for points last year. Out of that many cars how many are that under factored? My guess would be under 5 percent. So for less than 5 percent you make a rule that could add HP to the other 95 percent unless you play the game and run your car soft as all he## or let off at the 1000 foot line. This year being worse than last trying to fit it in that window of .65 to .95. And with no mine shaft conditions. This is drag racing isn't it? I could understand if it was T-Ball.

I would have more respect if they would just come out and tell us your wasting your time working on your car and spending money to make it go fast. We don't want your kind anymore. BP

[SDT1DYI]

Originally Posted by B Parker

Steve with all the talk last year about Stock and Super/ Stock being a performance Class this just helped do away with it. It appears to me they want us all to have cars that run between .65 and 85 under. Without the mine shaft conditions in there I don't think I'll try to make the Baby Gators the Gainesville Nationals or Indy. If the air is real good at the Baby Gator's which is the case most years and you try hard to win class and go 1.10 under. You will have to play the game the rest of the year trying to fit in that small window of .65 to .85. It will also help kill class at Indy. Didn't they see the turnout at Indy last year. And the times cars ran compared to the last couple of years. If they were going to put that small of a window in. It would have been nice to have mineshaft conditions. But keep the 1.30 instant hit in. But then again what do I know I've only been doing this for 45 years.

There were 969 Stockers that ran at least one race for points last year. Out of that many cars how many are that under factored? My guess would be under 5 percent. So for less than 5 percent you make a rule that could add HP to the other 95 percent unless you play the game and run your car soft as all he## or let off at the 1000 foot line. This year being worse than last trying to fit it in that window of .65 to .95. And with no mine shaft conditions. This is drag racing isn't it? I could understand if it was T-Ball.

I would have more respect if they would just come out and tell us your wasting your time working on your car and spending money to make it go fast. We don't want your kind anymore. BP

What is pretty clear from NHRA's quick change from what was post on 9-28, then changed on 12-6 , NHRA is struggling on exactly what to do with AHFS.
I would like to see Our Division reps and Directors reach out to every current competitor and get all of us to provide input.
We are the ones effective by this, why are we not involved in the decision process?
There has to be a better system that Stock competitor's can agree on or we risk the demise of Stock Eliminator.
We need all Cars Fast, and Not as Fast to compete fairly .
What they did on 12- 6 clearly punishes one side only.

Steve Teeter. Stk/SS 620

[Mike Pearson]

I say leave the AHFS the way it is. There is no perfect fix for the inequalities in our type of racing. The system that is in place now has worked to some extent over the years. There will always be some combos that are softer than others and as long as the racers with those combos protect their combos they will continue to run as fast as they please.
Personally I have a slow combo in SS that will not hit the trigger so i can run all out. There are plenty in my class that can run a second under and I have nothing for them. If I get a heads up and get beat I just load up and head home and get ready for the next race. I am now 64 years old and I still enjoy racing super stock. I cant compete heads up with the guys that spend 30-40K on an engine another 10K on a trans and converter. Even if I could I wouldn't spend that much to race for a $1200 to $1500 purse and some contingency that wont pay even if you win. I do this for fun no to make money although its nice to win a bit now and then. I plan to continue to race as long as my health will allow me too
Really the choice is up to each racer to decide how they want to race and what motivates them. If you want to spend money and go fast then you have to be willing to take the hit when it comes and not complain. If you want to race on a budget then you have accept that you will get beat on a heads up with a faster car in your class. Not all of us are wealthy and retired. I still work a 10 hr day then get in the truck and drive 8-10 hours to get to a race and be up in the morning ready to go the next day. I race within my means.

[SDT1DYI]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I say leave the AHFS the way it is. There is no perfect fix for the inequalities in our type of racing. The system that is in place now has worked to some extent over the years. There will always be some combos that are softer than others and as long as the racers with those combos protect their combos they will continue to run as fast as they please.
Personally I have a slow combo in SS that will not hit the trigger so i can run all out. There are plenty in my class that can run a second under and I have nothing for them. If I get a heads up and get beat I just load up and head home and get ready for the next race. I am now 64 years old and I still enjoy racing super stock. I cant compete heads up with the guys that spend 30-40K on an engine another 10K on a trans and converter. Even if I could I wouldn't spend that much to race for a $1200 to $1500 purse and some contingency that wont pay even if you win. I do this for fun no to make money although its nice to win a bit now and then. I plan to continue to race as long as my health will allow me too
Really the choice is up to each racer to decide how they want to race and what motivates them. If you want to spend money and go fast then you have to be willing to take the hit when it comes and not complain. If you want to race on a budget then you have accept that you will get beat on a heads up with a faster car in your class. Not all of us are wealthy and retired. I still work a 10 hr day then get in the truck and drive 8-10 hours to get to a race and be up in the morning ready to go the next day. I race within my means.

Mike well said. There's a lot of racers with similar thoughts about racing. Please keep racing for as long as you can..
Yes you can not please everyone, but NHRA seems to please no one.
There are those that can afford
A 100K COPO. There are those that do most of the work themselves and run fast. And there are those that love racing and have a tight budget. The big budget guys don't always win
That's what makes Stock or SS Eliminator interesting.
The big budget guys that just write a check don't always win. My point is we need every type of competitor in Stock and SS.
This Lastest 12-6 AHFS, Penalizes one group.
If any of the not so fast guys believe , penalizing the fast guys is good for Stock and SS racing as a whole, you should consider
These points.

1. These fast cars devolpe parts that end up available to everyone 2. Fast cars are of source of parts to purchase at much lower prices.
3. Faster cars increase the value of your car indirectly.
4. New racers getting into Stk and SS , look first at what cars and combos are fast and may buy the same Combo that's not so fast that is for sale.
5. I have found most all the fast guys will share info and be helpful if you ask in an intelligent performance question in a respectful manner. ( Yes up to a point , and some with not ).

As Barry said, what this lastest 12-6 revised AHFS will cause is a lot of slow runs and hard braking and a degrading of what was called a Performance Class.

Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620