How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???

[Bernie Cunningham]

This is a reprint from post 85, page 9 from Mark's (A56)post

LOTS TO DIGEST FOR SOME PEOPLE !!!!!!!! Some can't even follow along at all, it seems! Thomas, Ken, Dave and others get it.

I want to post a lot but don't have the time right now, I'm outta town at the frigg'in dyno trying to make more power.

Please understand the biggest point here, This is NOT an NHRA plan, there exists a committee that consists of manufactures and NHRA that sits down to figure out how they spend their money with US, the racers, so that when we do well with their products they can spread the word of success. It's costly and a hard concept to believe that it actually works and they've been meeting for years!!!! They are the ones that actually PAY YOU for winning Class, NOT NHRA, they are the fine manufacturers that posted your awards for using their product, PERIOD............................

Current Class Racing has been diluted over the years and, frankly has no significance to the past, you know, the glory days. Lack of payments to us by the manufacturers has been dwindling for years now ( 10 -15 ) and I'm not surprised to see this new deal in this economy.

It was gonna be THIS or NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! It may even bring in some more manufacturers because it builds more excitement back to them and their products. Send in ya comments because they do need our feed back, elbeit, (sp) sensible and not self preserving!

REMEMBER ONE THING, follow the money!!!!!
__________________



Now, if you had the job of drumming up financial support for Class racing, how would you present it to the 'cash cows', aka the manufacturers that would like to spend their money to pay US, the racers ??????????????

I'm back home and would love to hear some suggestions as I'm sure Charlie at NHRA would as well. He came up with the plan and it could use a few tweaks, no doubt, but he's open to suggestions.

Trust me, from an informed observer, Charlie and the manufactures are doing their best to SAVE CLASS RACING !!! So should we.

[Mark Yacavone]

Thanks, Bernie.

Yes,I'll make a suggestion:
Don't use a stick of dynamite to kill a fly.

If the singles are a problem to the manufacturers, then just put them in the four groups and run them off for a lil' wally and the cash.
Easy enough, right?

Now what's with all the 4 races, eight races, 12 , points ,Nat'l champ, whatever?
That deal has a big imbalance built into it that just favors Dan and a few others that go to a lot of races. They should just try the singles combo at first.

It will do nothing else but discourage several more racers that just like to go out a few times a year to a race near them,win class, pay for their entry, and take a shot at the eliminator.
After they're gone ,NHRA will just raise the entries and fees some more on the ones who haven't gone wobbly yet.

This does nothing to save class racing, the way I see it. It just runs off a few more budget racers.

[james schaechter]

If you mean contingency and class eliminations.....

There should and could be a better way to tie the marketing success and sales of products to the class racers. I don't think that the measure of the sales of a particular brand or component can be measured with the class runoffs alone.

If the manufacturers actually were ever satisfied with the number of cars that ran for class as their "sales" figures to class racers as a market share, they were not looking at the right thing.

It might have been difficult to give the manufacturers real data that supported this in the past.

I would say that it is not really important to a manufacturer how many cars show up for class, it is more important to know how many bought their stuff and advertised that they bought their stuff. They should not really care how many show up for class, but rather how many widgets they sold because of the class program.

With the ability to have data bases tied to web sites, etc. I think a smart marketing plan from NHRA and for the Manufacturers would include a web site that we could and should register our proof of purchase, class and maybe a picture or bio.

It should include a press release agreement. That way the manufactureres could easily track their sales success and tie it to a class. They could also have access as contingent sponsors to the racer pictures and bios to use on their own web sites. It would drive more sales I think. If a prospective racer was building a car for example, they could click on a category for example and then all the race cars and bios would come up. It would let a racer see the most popular brands or the what the racers that win or have faster cars run.

That in my opinion would help justify their $$$ spent. From that, they could decide if the total spend on a contingency program would be justified. Especially in the eyes of the bean counters. It is real data that could support a good business case.

I think also it would keep the racers accountable to claiming only parts that they bought and could prove that they bought. Whatever the guidelines were.

It would be a more solid structure that NHRA could sell and I think whomever ran it in NHRA would be able to then hold contingent sponsors accountable for payout more easily. It could have feedback tabs from racers and sponsors alike.

I do think NHRA has to allow more flexability to sponsors that want to particpate at a lower level as well. There are not as many big fish out there.

I agree that the system is not going well for us or the sponsors and something had or still has to be done. I just don't think that the new proposal attacks the real issue. It just slows down the death spiral. We need a difubulator for it, not a cough drop.

The good news is that I think it CAN work if we really get the right people with new ideas to try.

I love class racing and the heads up class runs. I want to see it work for all. It is not going to happen unless we can justify it in the eyes of the manufacturers and only if NHRA can commit some real resources to figure it out. I would have thought that with all this so called "marketing talent" they brought in, we could get some ideas going. Maybe as sportsman we are so far off their radar screen that they aren't looking at us as part of the solution.

I myself as a sportman think we carry more weight than we are given credit for in this area. If NHRA would realize it is "drive for show, putt for dough", they might decide to do something about it. There are a lot of racers buying parts that hardly ever show up to run class. That is a big market.

[Bryan Worner]

I agree with Mark! If the main issue is singles, don't take away from the rest of the class by not paying them! Who wants to go to a class race, have 8 cars in your class, and not get any contingency for winning that class runoff? Not me!!!

I do like the idea for grouping the singles! It will make things real interesting!! But how do you pair them up????

I really feel sorry for the stock guys! You're going to have to have a Drag Pack or a Mustang to compete for the money!!!

I can also guarantee that the SS Hemis will not stand for this and will have their own program!

[Dwight Southerland]

If you could do away with NHRA's slush fund from the sponsors, that would change the sponsor's attitude a lot. The fact that they pay for singles is one thing, but posting money that does not get paid to a racer and ends up in NHRA's pocket is another. NHRA claims it the extra money covers the administration of the program and it does, plus a lot more. If this is an area that was and is planned to be a profit center for them (non-profit??) then make it known. Accountability is important and is part of what Jim is talking about. If there really is validity to the ROI for posting contingency that can be proved for the sponsors, then let it be clearly shown. There are no records of what happens in the sponsorship program, but we see NHRA's bottom line and behavior in other areas and that makes us suspect. One benefit of their position as a privately held non-profit entity is that they do not have to disclose such details. If they were true to their "association" title, then those details would be available to the supporting membership. Anytime men can hide their activity from scrutiny by peers, an opportunity for corruption exists. And when an opportunity for corruption exists, someone will come along to take advantage of it.

[Robert Simpson]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

If you could do away with NHRA's slush fund from the sponsors, that would change the sponsor's attitude a lot. The fact that they pay for singles is one thing, but posting money that does not get paid to a racer and ends up in NHRA's pocket is another. NHRA claims it the extra money covers the administration of the program and it does, plus a lot more. If this is an area that was and is planned to be a profit center for them (non-profit??) then make it known. Accountability is important and is part of what Jim is talking about. If there really is validity to the ROI for posting contingency that can be proved for the sponsors, then let it be clearly shown. There are no records of what happens in the sponsorship program, but we see NHRA's bottom line and behavior in other areas and that makes us suspect. One benefit of their position as a privately held non-profit entity is that they do not have to disclose such details. If they were true to their "association" title, then those details would be available to the supporting membership. Anytime men can hide their activity from scrutiny by peers, an opportunity for corruption exists. And when an opportunity for corruption exists, someone will come along to take advantage of it.

What Dwight said is how I feel. If NHRA wants to make things better ask and LISTEN to the racers and the sponsors. I know for a fact that one of NHRA and IHRA's longest running cont. sponsor Turbo Action was not asked why they would not return as a sponsor. I have spoken to Paul and he made a point when he said that he happily put up money for the racers who run his product. But, NHRA wanted more and more money up front and then would cut some classes from the program that would represent his largest group of racers? That made no sence. etc etc. There are companies all over the country who support racers but NHRA and all there red tape will not let the companies put up financial money in such a way that will not be beneficial to both the racers and the sponsors. I think what James said could and should be implemented. There are marketing programs out there to determing all the data that is needed to show the companies where there $ is going and the rate of return FROM THE RACERS....We will see.

Robert

[X-TECH MAN]

I wont make a suggestion again because to many on here have self serving attitudes and I will most likely catch hell for this posting but the point is....the manufactures just can NOT afford to keep paying for the large number of classes combined with the number of NHRA (and other events and other eliminators .....there are more than NHRA races out there being contested for sponsor pay outs) races during a season. Single class runs or not. The problem is in the numbers of seperate pay outs with little or no return for the sponsor. The manufactures post for other eliminators besides stock and S/S. That plus the cost of the "Slush Fund" as one suggested NHRA charges for admin. fee's. WHY would any company want to be in on this bleeding of funds? Its almost the same deal as the Govt spending and the teachers unions. It has to be cut back or its over. The good times are over for awhile. No more freebies ! I know you still dont like the suggestion of less classes but what is the alternitive? Combine some of the classes, get the HP factors corrected ( a biggie), eliminate a few of the less populated and unpopular classes but try to combine the ones dropped to give the racers in those classes a place to play so the manufacturers can afford to become a profitable company again while being part of the family of NHRA and IHRA racng. I doubt NHRA will pay anymore out of their pockets to support our/your habbits. If anything they have made it harder for the little guy to compete with all of the so called "Enhancements". My 2 1/2 cents !

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

If you could do away with NHRA's slush fund from the sponsors, that would change the sponsor's attitude a lot. The fact that they pay for singles is one thing, but posting money that does not get paid to a racer and ends up in NHRA's pocket is another. NHRA claims it the extra money covers the administration of the program and it does, plus a lot more. If this is an area that was and is planned to be a profit center for them (non-profit??) then make it known. Accountability is important and is part of what Jim is talking about. If there really is validity to the ROI for posting contingency that can be proved for the sponsors, then let it be clearly shown. There are no records of what happens in the sponsorship program, but we see NHRA's bottom line and behavior in other areas and that makes us suspect. One benefit of their position as a privately held non-profit entity is that they do not have to disclose such details. If they were true to their "association" title, then those details would be available to the supporting membership. Anytime men can hide their activity from scrutiny by peers, an opportunity for corruption exists. And when an opportunity for corruption exists, someone will come along to take advantage of it.

Dwight you are right on the money with this. The sponsors have been enhanced over the years just like the racers. Back in the early 90's I got $5-600 for a class win. The Ford and Chrysler guys got quite a bit more. The fact that NHRA keeps what money that doesn't go to the racers makes it unlikely to attract more sponsors. I have to think if a sponsor posts money they want it to go to racers and not to NHRA.

Another important thing in your post is the lack of transparency. They don't want anyone to know where the money is going. A non profit like NHRA should be transparent. Why are they being secretive?

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Bernie Cunningham

This is a reprint from post 85, page 9 from Mark's (A56)post

LOTS TO DIGEST FOR SOME PEOPLE !!!!!!!! Some can't even follow along at all, it seems! Thomas, Ken, Dave and others get it.

I want to post a lot but don't have the time right now, I'm outta town at the frigg'in dyno trying to make more power.

Please understand the biggest point here, This is NOT an NHRA plan, there exists a committee that consists of manufactures and NHRA that sits down to figure out how they spend their money with US, the racers, so that when we do well with their products they can spread the word of success. It's costly and a hard concept to believe that it actually works and they've been meeting for years!!!! They are the ones that actually PAY YOU for winning Class, NOT NHRA, they are the fine manufacturers that posted your awards for using their product, PERIOD............................

Current Class Racing has been diluted over the years and, frankly has no significance to the past, you know, the glory days. Lack of payments to us by the manufacturers has been dwindling for years now ( 10 -15 ) and I'm not surprised to see this new deal in this economy.

It was gonna be THIS or NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! It may even bring in some more manufacturers because it builds more excitement back to them and their products. Send in ya comments because they do need our feed back, elbeit, (sp) sensible and not self preserving!

REMEMBER ONE THING, follow the money!!!!!
__________________



Now, if you had the job of drumming up financial support for Class racing, how would you present it to the 'cash cows', aka the manufacturers that would like to spend their money to pay US, the racers ??????????????

I'm back home and would love to hear some suggestions as I'm sure Charlie at NHRA would as well. He came up with the plan and it could use a few tweaks, no doubt, but he's open to suggestions.

Trust me, from an informed observer, Charlie and the manufactures are doing their best to SAVE CLASS RACING !!! So should we.

Bernie you can pass these ideas along to Charlie and others,

It would be nice to give the manufactures every possible way to participate. I run a business and am starting a mopar performance parts business, and can clearly see where contigency may not provide the return on investment many must have;

Suggestions;

Class only postings, without the elimins, etc.

small class postings....for example Mark or another small business wants to pay $10 per class win using his headers....

With the new program, allow the manufacturer to post in the currently non-paying 8 if they like.....Not everyone will be able to pony up to the double payout races

For the new championship format give manufacturers the option of contributing towards a purse for the 4 winners....Give them advertising space....the NHRA could pitch in too.

Imagine the response that would follow if the following were implemented:

1/2 contingency payout for the 8 qualifying races(something for the racers)(full even better!)

National Class Champions in the 4 classes get 10,000 a piece

And the 4 double contigency races

NOW THAT WOULD GET ATTENTION.

Hopefully these are constructive ideas.

I am certainly effected by the changes, not a bystander, I am finishing a stick car and a GT truck largely off the old class rules this winter.........

Class racing deserves to thrive, not just survive.

Sincerely

Eric Merryfield
Stock 1883, Superstock 1883

[Yo Ken]

I am going to stick this thread to the top, and I would hope that all members keep this discussion civil. Constructive ideas are what we need, if you wish to express your displeasure, please use or start another thread.

I will also list the names of any company that wants to support class racing and has interest in this new program for class racing and its future growth. The list will be in a new thread to be stuck to the top of this forum.

I will start on new page and link it on the main forum for all companies that support class racing once these companies let us know they are interested.

For companies that may read this, Class Racer reaches over 42,000 unique visitors each month with over 200,000 visits from these visitors along with over 2,000,000 pageviews. This is a lot of traffic that's targeted to class racers.

I think it would be beneficial for companies to let class racers know you want there business and are willing to support them.

You can contact me at admin@classracer.com.

Ken Miele