To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker)

Billy Nees · 09-05-2021, 09:43 AM

If not the AHFS then what?
What I'm hoping for is that a few Old Timers will get on here and explain to the geniuses who don't like (or agree) with the way HP hits are handled now how it was done in the "Good-old-days" before Nitro Joe's and the internet. When you went through Tech and were told that your combo got 5-10-15 HP this week (back then, Tech liked nice, round numbers, no 2-3) and your combo runs this class and weighs this much now.

Would I like to see changes to the AHFS? Sure I would but I don't believe that the Tech Dept. has the time or manpower right now to "fix" it.
I think that it would be great to have some kind of an independent auditor handle it but I can't imagine who or what that would be and I don't believe that the NHRA would allow an outside contractor to handle it anyway.

Come on you Old Poops, remind us what it used to be like in the Good-old-days.

For the rest of you intellectuals, let's hear your excuses.

Race Clean · 09-05-2021, 10:43 AM

Who ever first stated Automatic Help For Slugs had it right!
It’s primary use has been to protect HP factors or getting some off.
“Unhook secondary’s” for a couple of races to take the average down or going slow for a year (the 6 month period was to easy) and ask for a reduction has now become a boring part of what I once thought was the coolest thing on earth :Stock and SS,
And the “mine shaft rule” comes in to play at Indy,even that isn’t used as intended

Everyone involved know about the huge hp differences on same engine family’s this system has created but most racers seem to like the idea to have an option to change,model,trans or just trim to get ahead

Yes it have been somewhat effective on all paper cars I need to add

I remember the old system as OK anyhow,in the top dog classes in Stock it always seemed to be pretty close between the Big 3;the records keept alternating among all 3 makes. Now almost no one even want to try and get it anymore...and because of AHFS.

p.s. I always thought Ford racers had a good friend on the board but those racers probably had another opinion than me...

TOSTO RACING · 09-05-2021, 10:55 AM

Triggering the AHFS at the 1/8th would be a good start. Granted it won't fix everything ,but it would sure help.

nolongerracing · 09-05-2021, 10:55 AM

As I remember.. HP adjustments seem to be made by the "powers to be" as a popularity contest. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease", "I like him so he's not getting any", "Well you know you really deserved some" comes to mind. Too much emotion and opinions. We don't need to go back there. Just look at Stock Eliminator cylinder head rules!!

Todays system is not perfect, but we need to keep it as a numbers game. Checks, balances, and tweaks need to be made. I personally think the "mineshaft" rule needs to be based on actual weather data and not by the number of cars running .85 under. Super Stock did not go "mineshaft" this year at Indy. Looking at the Q list, I think there were plenty of cars that could have gone .85 under but did not need to. Egos always go to the top so some adjustments will be made.

1.20 under at -500 feet no problem, but at 3000 feet you need HP.

How about putting more monetary value on class wins. A trophy is ok, but a couple of grand may make a guy keep his foot down for the whole 1/4 mile!

Paul Precht · 09-05-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOSTO RACING

Triggering the AHFS at the 1/8th would be a good start. Granted it won't fix everything ,but it would sure help.

1/8th mile MPH would be the most accurate way of rating a body style and combo but a lot of racers would be against that as they got used to and enjoy being able to work the system, and NHRA knows that.

GTS340 · 09-05-2021, 11:46 AM

I can only go back to the early 80's from memory. You could have let's say 10 cars running the same combo. 9 of them could barely run the index. Then there was that one car that was fast. Boom the combo got 5 or 10hp.
Once I went to the Dutch classic. The barometer meter was pegged at 31 and it was about 50 degrees. I set the record and it never made the dragster. I got hp the next day. Basically tore down and changed class over the weekend. I have no problem with todays system. The one off combos are hard to deal with at times. They can be number 1 qualifier, get the bye run and bring the average back down. Works the system to perfection.
I guess I have one of those being the only A-Body mopar running a 440 4bbl with the original cast iron heads. Just scared the tech department won't see it that way.

Paul Haszlauer

B Parker · 09-05-2021, 11:59 AM

Billy I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with everything you said. Except for the INTELLECTUALS ( B Parker). Indy this year proved that if the AHFS is in effect all it will do is keep some away and anyone that is fast enough will just play the game. I agree the AHFS needs to be tweaked. It's 20 year old standards. I don't care how but either lower the indexes a tenth or change the three ET trigger points by a tenth. Have it twice a year like they had it. And if a combo triggers it to be looked at more than 3 times in those 6 months. You don't need to take a look at the averages it gets automatic 5HP upon the 3rd trigger. Let Indy be the one National that racers don't have to play the game. No AHFS. It will let racers see what combo's could use some extra weight or how far behind or ahead they are of others in their same combo. I know others will find fault in this but it is better than what we have now. BP

Alex Polewik · 09-05-2021, 01:25 PM

Go back to class winners only at Indy,Gators,Winters(whatever other Nats you want to). Then fastest 32 qualified after that. No class singles. In Super Stock this year that would be 31 class winners plus the 3 combo class winners plus 32 top qualifiers. Put the "Class" back in racing. AFHS in force with no "Mineshaft" deal. I'd like to see people game that system.

MoJo Risen · 09-05-2021, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOSTO RACING

Triggering the AHFS at the 1/8th would be a good start. Granted it won't fix everything ,but it would sure help.

To bypass , this I'd just put 2nd gear Rev limiter at a lowered rpm and run against it till after 1/8 mile then shift into 3rd gear....

Oops, I missed the 2-3 shift again...

TOSTO RACING · 09-05-2021, 02:27 PM

You going to do that every pass lol . If so I'd love to be in the other lane. There are plenty of ways around it that people are already doing now. Its not a fix ,but I think it would help.

09-05-2021, 09:43 AM	#1
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,489 Likes: 3,593 Liked 7,699 Times in 1,734 Posts	To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) If not the AHFS then what? What I'm hoping for is that a few Old Timers will get on here and explain to the geniuses who don't like (or agree) with the way HP hits are handled now how it was done in the "Good-old-days" before Nitro Joe's and the internet. When you went through Tech and were told that your combo got 5-10-15 HP this week (back then, Tech liked nice, round numbers, no 2-3) and your combo runs this class and weighs this much now. Would I like to see changes to the AHFS? Sure I would but I don't believe that the Tech Dept. has the time or manpower right now to "fix" it. I think that it would be great to have some kind of an independent auditor handle it but I can't imagine who or what that would be and I don't believe that the NHRA would allow an outside contractor to handle it anyway. Come on you Old Poops, remind us what it used to be like in the Good-old-days. For the rest of you intellectuals, let's hear your excuses. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

09-05-2021, 10:43 AM	#2
Race Clean Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 159 Likes: 18 Liked 129 Times in 53 Posts	Re: To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) Who ever first stated Automatic Help For Slugs had it right! It’s primary use has been to protect HP factors or getting some off. “Unhook secondary’s” for a couple of races to take the average down or going slow for a year (the 6 month period was to easy) and ask for a reduction has now become a boring part of what I once thought was the coolest thing on earth :Stock and SS, And the “mine shaft rule” comes in to play at Indy,even that isn’t used as intended Everyone involved know about the huge hp differences on same engine family’s this system has created but most racers seem to like the idea to have an option to change,model,trans or just trim to get ahead Yes it have been somewhat effective on all paper cars I need to add I remember the old system as OK anyhow,in the top dog classes in Stock it always seemed to be pretty close between the Big 3;the records keept alternating among all 3 makes. Now almost no one even want to try and get it anymore...and because of AHFS. p.s. I always thought Ford racers had a good friend on the board but those racers probably had another opinion than me... __________________ Stop global whining Last edited by Race Clean; 09-05-2021 at 10:54 AM.

09-05-2021, 10:55 AM	#3
TOSTO RACING Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: DRAGSTRIP Posts: 884 Likes: 882 Liked 639 Times in 182 Posts	Re: To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) Triggering the AHFS at the 1/8th would be a good start. Granted it won't fix everything ,but it would sure help. __________________ 5664 GHI/SA 1985 CAMARO RED H/SA 1985 CAMARO BLUE I/SA Last edited by TOSTO RACING; 09-05-2021 at 11:07 AM.

09-05-2021, 10:55 AM	#4
nolongerracing Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 173 Likes: 2 Liked 72 Times in 27 Posts	Re: To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) As I remember.. HP adjustments seem to be made by the "powers to be" as a popularity contest. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease", "I like him so he's not getting any", "Well you know you really deserved some" comes to mind. Too much emotion and opinions. We don't need to go back there. Just look at Stock Eliminator cylinder head rules!! Todays system is not perfect, but we need to keep it as a numbers game. Checks, balances, and tweaks need to be made. I personally think the "mineshaft" rule needs to be based on actual weather data and not by the number of cars running .85 under. Super Stock did not go "mineshaft" this year at Indy. Looking at the Q list, I think there were plenty of cars that could have gone .85 under but did not need to. Egos always go to the top so some adjustments will be made. 1.20 under at -500 feet no problem, but at 3000 feet you need HP. How about putting more monetary value on class wins. A trophy is ok, but a couple of grand may make a guy keep his foot down for the whole 1/4 mile!

09-05-2021, 11:46 AM	#6
GTS340 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Las Vegas, Nv Posts: 866 Likes: 269 Liked 1,340 Times in 407 Posts	Re: To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) I can only go back to the early 80's from memory. You could have let's say 10 cars running the same combo. 9 of them could barely run the index. Then there was that one car that was fast. Boom the combo got 5 or 10hp. Once I went to the Dutch classic. The barometer meter was pegged at 31 and it was about 50 degrees. I set the record and it never made the dragster. I got hp the next day. Basically tore down and changed class over the weekend. I have no problem with todays system. The one off combos are hard to deal with at times. They can be number 1 qualifier, get the bye run and bring the average back down. Works the system to perfection. I guess I have one of those being the only A-Body mopar running a 440 4bbl with the original cast iron heads. Just scared the tech department won't see it that way. Paul Haszlauer

09-05-2021, 11:59 AM	#7
B Parker Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 849 Likes: 980 Liked 2,336 Times in 464 Posts	Re: To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) Billy I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with everything you said. Except for the INTELLECTUALS ( B Parker). Indy this year proved that if the AHFS is in effect all it will do is keep some away and anyone that is fast enough will just play the game. I agree the AHFS needs to be tweaked. It's 20 year old standards. I don't care how but either lower the indexes a tenth or change the three ET trigger points by a tenth. Have it twice a year like they had it. And if a combo triggers it to be looked at more than 3 times in those 6 months. You don't need to take a look at the averages it gets automatic 5HP upon the 3rd trigger. Let Indy be the one National that racers don't have to play the game. No AHFS. It will let racers see what combo's could use some extra weight or how far behind or ahead they are of others in their same combo. I know others will find fault in this but it is better than what we have now. BP Last edited by B Parker; 09-05-2021 at 12:17 PM.

09-05-2021, 01:25 PM	#8
Alex Polewik Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Huxley, IA Posts: 139 Likes: 22 Liked 97 Times in 19 Posts	Re: To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) Go back to class winners only at Indy,Gators,Winters(whatever other Nats you want to). Then fastest 32 qualified after that. No class singles. In Super Stock this year that would be 31 class winners plus the 3 combo class winners plus 32 top qualifiers. Put the "Class" back in racing. AFHS in force with no "Mineshaft" deal. I'd like to see people game that system.

09-05-2021, 02:27 PM	#10
TOSTO RACING Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: DRAGSTRIP Posts: 884 Likes: 882 Liked 639 Times in 182 Posts	Re: To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker) You going to do that every pass lol . If so I'd love to be in the other lane. There are plenty of ways around it that people are already doing now. Its not a fix ,but I think it would help. __________________ 5664 GHI/SA 1985 CAMARO RED H/SA 1985 CAMARO BLUE I/SA Last edited by TOSTO RACING; 09-05-2021 at 02:33 PM.