Records and Altitude Factors

Bryan Broaddus · 04-08-2007, 01:45 PM

My opinion is records should be allowed at any track as long as the corrected altitude is no more than 500 feet below the actual altitude of the facility. This would give everybody a chance at a National Record but without the over compensation seen at altitude tracks during cold and high pressure conditions.

The NHRA could install a Standard weather station at each Member track and broadcast the data over an AM/FM station or integrate it into the Icard system. This would give the racers a standardized reference for all runs and a backup to your own weather data.

A cool product someone could built is a small radio receiver that would work in conjunction with the NHRA broadcast and would give an alpha-numeric display of the weather conditions. It could be mounted in the car for real time updates. We could purchase them for a one time fee and have official weather data at all tracks.

One other thing, FOUR time runs at Divisionals minimum!!!

Earle Holt · 04-08-2007, 01:55 PM

I'll post what I suggested in another thread:

I don't understand why all tracks don't have standardized and calibrated weather stations. I'm sure there are companies that would love to be the "official weather station of the NHRA." This way records could be corrected to sea level no matter if you are racing in Atco, NJ or Bandimere, CO.

We can still give racers kudos for putting a big number on the board but not penalize racers across the country for someone running a stout number in mineshaft conditions or running a "calculated" number at a factored track.

Earle

Earle Holt · 04-08-2007, 02:08 PM

Like Bill Belden said, if someone runs 1.4 under at a factored track, it should count for AHFS like it would for any other track. By not counting them, NHRA is implying that the numbers aren't credible.

Tom P · 04-08-2007, 02:28 PM

Being that i'm not far from Mission i'd hate the idea of records not counting more than 500 feet below. That's what draws the fastest cars here.

Dave Ribeiro · 04-08-2007, 10:25 PM

Tom,

How about this the records will count and so will the NEW HP,that you guys will get... That sounds Fair, all factored tracks can set records and will get facyored on Mondays like all the other tracks.....................................Dave... 1033/stock (RV-455)

Adger Smith · 04-09-2007, 12:14 AM

Yea, NHRA needs to do something about this altitude factor & mineshaft air. I'm tired of running in 90 to 100 degree heat & other guys running in mineshaft air. I haven't got the time or money to chase this good air around the country. NHRA bring it to me! And I don't want rain with it!

Adger Smith

Bob Orme · 04-09-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

My opinion is records should be allowed at any track as long as the corrected altitude is no more than 500 feet below the actual altitude of the facility. This would give everybody a chance at a National Record but without the over compensation seen at altitude tracks during cold and high pressure conditions.

The NHRA could install a Standard weather station at each Member track and broadcast the data over an AM/FM station or integrate it into the Icard system. This would give the racers a standardized reference for all runs and a backup to your own weather data.

A cool product someone could built is a small radio receiver that would work in conjunction with the NHRA broadcast and would give an alpha-numeric display of the weather conditions. It could be mounted in the car for real time updates. We could purchase them for a one time fee and have official weather data at all tracks.

The adjusted altitude can change more than 500 feet between the beginning of a session and the end of it. What would you do there? Have a distinct altitude for every pair? How would that be integrated into the timing system? You'd have to have a hard copy record of each pair, like the run log, with a calibrated adjusted altitude on it for it to be accurate.

I won't go into icard, other than to say, it shouldn't work at divisional events (at least it was supposed to be that way last year).

I can fully understand a desire to have an accurate altitude system in place for record runs and index/HP adjustments, but the way the adjusted altitude can change within a period of minutes, I just don't see a feasible way to do it other than having a set adjusted altitude. If there was a way to have a floating reading, wouldn't it be necessary to do the same thing at sea level tracks?

james schaechter · 04-09-2007, 07:37 AM

My first thought is hell yea! Give em the hp hit! Then I thought. Well, what if it was my combo that got hit, and I know that there is no way that the car that got it was a true 1.40 under car. I think you all could ask yourselves that too. Maybe NHRA needs to look at the alt factors and tighten them just a wee bit. In fact, the indexes could be tweaked across the board. Didn't NHRA soften the indexes several years back? Why not drop em all back down? Or at least consider having the indexes soft at Divisionals for the entry level cars and crank them down the 2 tenths or whatever at Nationals. It might help with the 1.15 AHFS and make qualifying a bit more serious. I don't know, just a thought. Jim Schaechter 3163

Bill Belden · 04-09-2007, 09:06 AM

The altitude factoring formula is as old as dirt, correct me if I'm wrong ,but it was devised 20 or 30 years ago, since then the indexes have changed, technoligy has improved many times over and allowable improvements have been added, and the factoring formula has remained the same.
Solution: update it or get rid of it

1100 I/S

Dick Butler · 04-09-2007, 09:46 AM

In the 60s and 70s the records got to be a problem due to weather and altitude also. Result Index system. This didnt use the record to affect the racing. Now the record affects the HP instead of the dial.
Simple solution for records is exclude record runs from AHFS.

Record runs- Pick one track with average condition type features for each division. Set acceptable criteria like true altitude of track, Best air combination allowed -500 ft. Make only one track per division, one meet per year and GO for it. It would make a neat meet for many to come for the record attempts at one time....

Dick Butler 3529

04-08-2007, 01:45 PM	#1
Bryan Broaddus Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 100 Likes: 1 Liked 18 Times in 3 Posts	Records and Altitude Factors My opinion is records should be allowed at any track as long as the corrected altitude is no more than 500 feet below the actual altitude of the facility. This would give everybody a chance at a National Record but without the over compensation seen at altitude tracks during cold and high pressure conditions. The NHRA could install a Standard weather station at each Member track and broadcast the data over an AM/FM station or integrate it into the Icard system. This would give the racers a standardized reference for all runs and a backup to your own weather data. A cool product someone could built is a small radio receiver that would work in conjunction with the NHRA broadcast and would give an alpha-numeric display of the weather conditions. It could be mounted in the car for real time updates. We could purchase them for a one time fee and have official weather data at all tracks. One other thing, FOUR time runs at Divisionals minimum!!! __________________ Bryan Broaddus 7568 STK ,SS

04-08-2007, 01:55 PM	#2
Earle Holt Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 194 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 1 Post	I'll post what I suggested in another thread: I don't understand why all tracks don't have standardized and calibrated weather stations. I'm sure there are companies that would love to be the "official weather station of the NHRA." This way records could be corrected to sea level no matter if you are racing in Atco, NJ or Bandimere, CO. We can still give racers kudos for putting a big number on the board but not penalize racers across the country for someone running a stout number in mineshaft conditions or running a "calculated" number at a factored track. Earle __________________ Earle Holt 1055 Stock

04-08-2007, 02:08 PM	#3
Earle Holt Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 194 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 1 Post	Like Bill Belden said, if someone runs 1.4 under at a factored track, it should count for AHFS like it would for any other track. By not counting them, NHRA is implying that the numbers aren't credible. __________________ Earle Holt 1055 Stock

04-08-2007, 10:25 PM	#5
Dave Ribeiro VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Williamsburg, Va.---USA Posts: 1,827 Likes: 1,612 Liked 56 Times in 27 Posts	Tom, How about this the records will count and so will the NEW HP,that you guys will get... That sounds Fair, all factored tracks can set records and will get facyored on Mondays like all the other tracks.....................................Dave... 1033/stock (RV-455) __________________ Dave Ribeiro 1033 STK

04-09-2007, 12:14 AM	#6
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,363 Likes: 454 Liked 693 Times in 269 Posts	Yea, NHRA needs to do something about this altitude factor & mineshaft air. I'm tired of running in 90 to 100 degree heat & other guys running in mineshaft air. I haven't got the time or money to chase this good air around the country. NHRA bring it to me! And I don't want rain with it! Adger Smith __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

04-08-2007, 02:28 PM	#4
Tom P Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 699 Likes: 29 Liked 224 Times in 90 Posts	Being that i'm not far from Mission i'd hate the idea of records not counting more than 500 feet below. That's what draws the fastest cars here.

04-09-2007, 07:37 AM	#8
james schaechter VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 1,933 Likes: 1,099 Liked 1,226 Times in 251 Posts	My first thought is hell yea! Give em the hp hit! Then I thought. Well, what if it was my combo that got hit, and I know that there is no way that the car that got it was a true 1.40 under car. I think you all could ask yourselves that too. Maybe NHRA needs to look at the alt factors and tighten them just a wee bit. In fact, the indexes could be tweaked across the board. Didn't NHRA soften the indexes several years back? Why not drop em all back down? Or at least consider having the indexes soft at Divisionals for the entry level cars and crank them down the 2 tenths or whatever at Nationals. It might help with the 1.15 AHFS and make qualifying a bit more serious. I don't know, just a thought. Jim Schaechter 3163 __________________ James Schaechter 3163 STK

04-09-2007, 09:06 AM	#9
Bill Belden Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: York, PA Posts: 241 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	The altitude factoring formula is as old as dirt, correct me if I'm wrong ,but it was devised 20 or 30 years ago, since then the indexes have changed, technoligy has improved many times over and allowable improvements have been added, and the factoring formula has remained the same. Solution: update it or get rid of it 1100 I/S __________________ Bill Belden Retired Stock Eliminator [emailSTK1100@comcast.net[/email]

04-09-2007, 09:46 AM	#10
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,197 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	In the 60s and 70s the records got to be a problem due to weather and altitude also. Result Index system. This didnt use the record to affect the racing. Now the record affects the HP instead of the dial. Simple solution for records is exclude record runs from AHFS. Record runs- Pick one track with average condition type features for each division. Set acceptable criteria like true altitude of track, Best air combination allowed -500 ft. Make only one track per division, one meet per year and GO for it. It would make a neat meet for many to come for the record attempts at one time.... Dick Butler 3529