IHRA SS Production??

Karl Owens · 06-24-2014, 09:58 AM

The rules aren't very clear, can you take an existing NHRA/IHRA SS combination and add sheet metals and dual carbs? Pistons? Head volumes?

Ron E · 06-24-2014, 09:18 PM

You could do that. But, S/S production classes allow OE part numbered race heads, aluminum rods, titanium valves etc. They are closer to a comp engine than a NHRA S/S. No runner volume. Pistons are wide open. I'm not sure if they still have 2-4bbl classes. I know they have a single 4bbl and 2bbl classes.

Tracy Robbins · 06-24-2014, 11:26 PM

Super stock production is very similar to modified because you are allowed to use a corporate match aluminum head and sheet metal intake. No brodix, dart, etc... The major difference is you have to maintain stock bore and stroke w/ .070 over bore allowed and .015 allowed on the stroke I believe. So unlike modified you aren't allowed the big bore short stroke and 2x4 set up. Also, carb requirement is a single 4 barrel or a single 2 barrel. If using a 2 barrel you are not allowed to use a vacuum pump. This is a summary but hope it helps.

Karl Owens · 06-26-2014, 10:33 PM

I have a Pontiac 428 based combination, NHRA legal Edelbrock heads (castings) By NHRA rule book the heads aren't legal in SS/AM because they don't have an OE part number, but in SS they are allowed to replace an OE part number. I don't see anywhere in IHRAs rules where they address this. My combination would be an NHRA legal super stock combination ignoring the piston and head volume rules.

Tracy Robbins · 06-26-2014, 10:55 PM

You are required to have an OE part number for production SS just like modified if I'm not mistaken, but you may want to talk to Mike Baker to be sure.

Adger Smith · 06-27-2014, 03:23 AM

At one time I was thinking about running a set of Olds heads on a SBC (Skoal Bandit era) in SS production. I had sent a picture to Mike Baker and he approved them. They have a GM casting number. See picture.

Karl Owens · 06-27-2014, 06:29 AM

Common sense is not part of the classification guidelines I guess. Even in Stock, Edelbrock and World Products heads can legally replace an OE casting. Then in the top classes in Stock/SS an exact copy of an OE head which accepts all the same parts as the OE heads and this same casting a legal stock head.

The OE heads that are legal are complete departures from any OE heads, Chevy heads would be the canted valve and SBx heads and Ford has the C302, C3, D3 heads and Mopar with the W and P series heads. None of these heads were originally designed as NHRA heads, all were mostly NASCAR and road racing.

The last time Pontiac was involved in NASCAR was in the early seventies at least engine wise with the 366 Ram Air V program.

My heads even have an NHRA logo engraved on the ends, but there is no way I could even get Chevrolet Performance(formerly GM Performance) to put a GM part number on them like they do with the BBC Edelbrock heads which initially opened the door for NHRA legal Edelbrock heads. Ford even puts a part number on a Alan Johnson billet head for the 300 inline 6!

I have a car that is 100% legal common sense wise, its not going to set records but be a .4-.6 under player. I guess 3 or 4 AM cars are too much?

I like Super Stock, I like Pontiacs, I don't like Quadrajets and internal engine restrictions and tear downs.

Dwight Southerland · 06-27-2014, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Owens

Common sense is not part of the classification guidelines I guess. Even in Stock, Edelbrock and World Products heads can legally replace an OE casting. Then in the top classes in Stock/SS an exact copy of an OE head which accepts all the same parts as the OE heads and this same casting a legal stock head.

The OE heads that are legal are complete departures from any OE heads, Chevy heads would be the canted valve and SBx heads and Ford has the C302, C3, D3 heads and Mopar with the W and P series heads. None of these heads were originally designed as NHRA heads, all were mostly NASCAR and road racing.

The last time Pontiac was involved in NASCAR was in the early seventies at least engine wise with the 366 Ram Air V program.

My heads even have an NHRA logo engraved on the ends, but there is no way I could even get Chevrolet Performance(formerly GM Performance) to put a GM part number on them like they do with the BBC Edelbrock heads which initially opened the door for NHRA legal Edelbrock heads. Ford even puts a part number on a Alan Johnson billet head for the 300 inline 6!

I have a car that is 100% legal common sense wise, its not going to set records but be a .4-.6 under player. I guess 3 or 4 AM cars are too much?

I like Super Stock, I like Pontiacs, I don't like Quadrajets and internal engine restrictions and tear downs.

Just because it has a factory part number on it does not make it allowed in Stock/SS.

Edelbrock replacement heads for the Ford FE motors started the "Edelbrock replacement heads" move. Vic has old friends in high places.

Adger Smith · 06-27-2014, 10:04 AM

Carl,
Since Dwight opened the door & Just like my PM to you:
I feel your pain on the part # rules. I think it is all about money. If a company sees a way to get a performance head cast, or other parts made, and they sell it through their performance division they usually put their part numbers on it. It is just another one of those "Follow The Money" deals. No one at GM wants to sell Pontiac performance parts since there is "Oficially" no Pontiac.

Karl Owens · 06-27-2014, 09:41 PM

The other rule issue which affected another SS/AM is the bore spacing rule. This rule was never in the rule book until fairly recently and it is a rule that doesn't make sense in pounds per cubic inch class. The bore spacing rule should be the same as Pro Stock at 4.900" mainly because Big Block Chevy and Mopar have 4.840" bore spacing which limits the cylinder head technology to 20 year old stuff, Big Block Ford however is 4.900" and allow that combination to use the latest Pro Stock technology.

My argument with the Edelbrock head is one it has NHRA engraved on it and is accepted as a replacement for the OE head, therefore Edelbrock head =OE head. The head is an exact copy of a well ported Ram Air IV head, no raised ports, uses the same intake, valve cover, valves, headers, rocker arms and is somewhat of a disadvantage over a Brodix Big Chief head with GM part number. I know Im talking to the wall when it comes to this and NHRA.

06-24-2014, 09:58 AM	#1
Karl Owens Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 69 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	IHRA SS Production?? The rules aren't very clear, can you take an existing NHRA/IHRA SS combination and add sheet metals and dual carbs? Pistons? Head volumes?

06-24-2014, 09:18 PM	#2
Ron E Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA SS Production?? You could do that. But, S/S production classes allow OE part numbered race heads, aluminum rods, titanium valves etc. They are closer to a comp engine than a NHRA S/S. No runner volume. Pistons are wide open. I'm not sure if they still have 2-4bbl classes. I know they have a single 4bbl and 2bbl classes.

06-24-2014, 11:26 PM	#3
Tracy Robbins Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Youngsville, NC Posts: 846 Likes: 3 Liked 25 Times in 11 Posts	Re: IHRA SS Production?? Super stock production is very similar to modified because you are allowed to use a corporate match aluminum head and sheet metal intake. No brodix, dart, etc... The major difference is you have to maintain stock bore and stroke w/ .070 over bore allowed and .015 allowed on the stroke I believe. So unlike modified you aren't allowed the big bore short stroke and 2x4 set up. Also, carb requirement is a single 4 barrel or a single 2 barrel. If using a 2 barrel you are not allowed to use a vacuum pump. This is a summary but hope it helps. __________________ Tracy Robbins SS 9766

06-26-2014, 10:33 PM	#4
Karl Owens Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 69 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: IHRA SS Production?? I have a Pontiac 428 based combination, NHRA legal Edelbrock heads (castings) By NHRA rule book the heads aren't legal in SS/AM because they don't have an OE part number, but in SS they are allowed to replace an OE part number. I don't see anywhere in IHRAs rules where they address this. My combination would be an NHRA legal super stock combination ignoring the piston and head volume rules.

06-26-2014, 10:55 PM	#5
Tracy Robbins Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Youngsville, NC Posts: 846 Likes: 3 Liked 25 Times in 11 Posts	Re: IHRA SS Production?? You are required to have an OE part number for production SS just like modified if I'm not mistaken, but you may want to talk to Mike Baker to be sure. __________________ Tracy Robbins SS 9766

06-27-2014, 06:29 AM	#7
Karl Owens Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 69 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: IHRA SS Production?? Common sense is not part of the classification guidelines I guess. Even in Stock, Edelbrock and World Products heads can legally replace an OE casting. Then in the top classes in Stock/SS an exact copy of an OE head which accepts all the same parts as the OE heads and this same casting a legal stock head. The OE heads that are legal are complete departures from any OE heads, Chevy heads would be the canted valve and SBx heads and Ford has the C302, C3, D3 heads and Mopar with the W and P series heads. None of these heads were originally designed as NHRA heads, all were mostly NASCAR and road racing. The last time Pontiac was involved in NASCAR was in the early seventies at least engine wise with the 366 Ram Air V program. My heads even have an NHRA logo engraved on the ends, but there is no way I could even get Chevrolet Performance(formerly GM Performance) to put a GM part number on them like they do with the BBC Edelbrock heads which initially opened the door for NHRA legal Edelbrock heads. Ford even puts a part number on a Alan Johnson billet head for the 300 inline 6! I have a car that is 100% legal common sense wise, its not going to set records but be a .4-.6 under player. I guess 3 or 4 AM cars are too much? I like Super Stock, I like Pontiacs, I don't like Quadrajets and internal engine restrictions and tear downs.

06-27-2014, 10:04 AM	#9
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: IHRA SS Production?? Carl, Since Dwight opened the door & Just like my PM to you: I feel your pain on the part # rules. I think it is all about money. If a company sees a way to get a performance head cast, or other parts made, and they sell it through their performance division they usually put their part numbers on it. It is just another one of those "Follow The Money" deals. No one at GM wants to sell Pontiac performance parts since there is "Oficially" no Pontiac. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

06-27-2014, 09:41 PM	#10
Karl Owens Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 69 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: IHRA SS Production?? The other rule issue which affected another SS/AM is the bore spacing rule. This rule was never in the rule book until fairly recently and it is a rule that doesn't make sense in pounds per cubic inch class. The bore spacing rule should be the same as Pro Stock at 4.900" mainly because Big Block Chevy and Mopar have 4.840" bore spacing which limits the cylinder head technology to 20 year old stuff, Big Block Ford however is 4.900" and allow that combination to use the latest Pro Stock technology. My argument with the Edelbrock head is one it has NHRA engraved on it and is accepted as a replacement for the OE head, therefore Edelbrock head =OE head. The head is an exact copy of a well ported Ram Air IV head, no raised ports, uses the same intake, valve cover, valves, headers, rocker arms and is somewhat of a disadvantage over a Brodix Big Chief head with GM part number. I know Im talking to the wall when it comes to this and NHRA.