67 Firebird 400 4 SPEEDcombo questions???

[Kegracing]

OK, this is a long term project maybe... I have a 67 Firebird Convt. stocker, with IHRA crate motor in it now. Car was factory stick car, but th350 in it now. Car is built ok, and runs fair with a cheap zz4 motor. BUT... I want to build a Pontiac 400 - 4 speed combo. I have a set of 670 heads and intake, but motor is a whole different topic for now.

Reason for this post is to get some 4 SPEED AND CLUTCH education and ideas. I know there are some really good stick shift racers on here. I will ask the moderators to please let them be open, as I know there have been some problems with people pushing one type or the other of parts in the past... I am just looking for ideas and facts. Design differences, what different people are running and why.

Also, Pontiac is not high reving, even in stocker trim. Probablly 4.30 rear gears with 9x30 slick? but what trans ratios? Guessing different from the high winding small blocks...

Thanks in advance, and feel free to IM or email me if you would prefer.

Ken

[Dennis P Chapman]

You need to talk to Todd Hoven he on this site.

[tj310]

You'r going to want an adjustable pressure plate with a sintered iron disc ( slipper clutch) . Ram, Mcleod , Advanced etc ---Trevor

[Mark Yacavone]

I would say you would need at least a .56 gear.
I ran a low comp 400 stick, and used an .88 @ about 3670#.

[Adam Strang]

You might be suprised about the trans gear ratios.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Kegracing

Also, Pontiac is not high reving, even in stocker trim.

Probably higher than you think.

Thanks Dennis, But Im not sure in my racing state I should be giving advice to guys wanting to race Pontiacs with a stick shift. Im fairly new in my program, and very green to the stickshift world. Adam Strang is the veteran here and I think has made the fastest passes with a stick shift Pontiac stocker ever. I think somewhere in the 10.40's. He is alot further along in knowledge and program devolpment then I am.
I'll add a few cents anyway
That 67 400 combo is very good, with either a stick or auto. For the stick combo the basics.
Buy a Gforce or a Jerico. I'm partial to the Gforce because I have one and living in the north east I can drive there and buy any parts I need within an hr.

Start with a Mcleod soft lok. Good buy for the money and very adjustable.
Leaving the line with one of these cars is a finesse game, this is not to be over looked. The clutch is an important part.

Rear gear will between a 4.30 and a 4.88. Depending on the first gear you end up with.

That engine will will most likely want a trap rpm between 6300 and 6800, so gear accordingly.

I cant tell you what it takes to make one of these cars run well and work on the starting line because I still trying to figure it out.

You will need to work hard, and spend money in smart places. If you decide to take it on, I wish you luck. If your willing to put the work in, your reward will be a lighting fast car. But you are going to have to work on it.

[Kegracing]

I appreciate the quick reply's from everyone. I have had this car for almost 30 years. Found it as a rust bucket in high school, pissed my parents off when I bought it. Had it on the street, shows, and now a race car. Used to race a lot, then kids, job, moved with work, etc. Now I am getting to race a little again, and hedged my bet a little by buying my oldest son a Jr. Dragster... thought that was smart until I started spending money and working on that LOL.

My Firebird will probably never set any records, and the few other 67's out there probably would be smart sending me some parts just to get it running, as I could help protect their HP ratings with a slower car... LOL. I just want to put a stick in it and have some fun when I do get a chance to race it. I know a automatic is easier to keep up, and more consistent in "most" drivers hands, but a stick is more fun - to me.

Adam, would love to know more details on what you are hinting at...

Todd, I really appreciate your details. It sounds like you are going thru the tuning curve blues... Good luck with it. I don't know you, but it sounds like you have the knowledge and persistence to work it out! Maybe we will get a chance to discuss more sometime. I agree with you, that I have a combo with a lot of potential to go really fast... I just want to have some fun right now, more than set records. Don't get me wrong, I like to go fast, and got into stock for the technical challenge, but I need to take one step at a time right now.

thanks again everyone.

Ken

[Hudlow66]

Don't be afraid to twist that Poncho. We've done it for many years, when people said "you cant do that".

As for the clutch, for many-many years, we used an old Borg & Beck style pressure plate. Had it "beefed up" and away we went. When we started running NHRA tracks, we had to update to an SFI unit and went with a McLeod soft lock set-up. Did that for about 15 years and got tired of ripping the disks and cracking the hats. Here just a couple years ago, we stepped up to a Boninfanti unit. What a difference! Only down fall is they only do a 1.4 cert., so Ive got to send it back every year to re-cert (wish they would've told us that when we were looking).

As for the car, I must confess that it is NOT a stock chassis car. If fact, it's a tube chassis piece. None the less, it's a (get ready for this) '68 Dodge Dart with a 400 Pontiac block, 4.25 stroke crank, iron RAIV heads, Liberty's 5-speed, Dana with 4.56. Launch at 6200, shift at 6500, go through the traps at about 6700. Best time (so far) is a 8.90 @ 148. I say "so far" because in Pro bracket, Im only supposed to go 9.0. I haven't had the chance to really stretch it's legs, since making some changes.

Im sure there's other pieces out there. This is just what Ive had the privilege to grow up with and learn about, over the years.