Is it feasible to metal spray a cam?

bill dedman · 06-29-2011, 01:24 AM

You cannot buy a roller cam for a Mopar slant 6 because there are NO blanks for a roller in that engine. Nobody seems to have one.

You CAN get a blank made for $1,000.00, but it won't include the gear for the oil pump drive and distributor drive on it, requiring you to have to employ an aftermarket, accessory-drive oil pump (gilmer belt?) and a crank trigger ignition.... a lot of extra trouble and expense.

I was curious if any cam grinders were able to metal spray a new steel flat tappet cam with enough material to make a roller profile from that original flat tappet cam. I know it will take extra material for the "fatter" roller lobe profile.

Years ago, stroker cranks were created by metal sprayng to build up crankpins to larger diameters, which were then ground "offest" to increase the stroke. I don't think they use that method any more.... but I don't know.

Is metal spraying ever used on camshafts?

Is a roller-lifter cam subject to less damaging unit-loading than a flat tappet cam, since the lifter wheel just rolls over the surface, and doesn't abraid (abrade?) the surface, like a flat-tappet cam would? Or, does the roller's small contact area pose similar unit loading pressures, commensurate with a flat-tappet cam?

Is this just a terrible idea, and totally unworkable? I don't know where else to go to ask for reliable information.

Any ideas and information will be much appreciated!

Thanks...
Bill

Bob Pagano · 06-29-2011, 08:41 AM

Someone grinds a cam for a 6 , what about the stockers like Bushmaker and I cant remember the other one. Look them up
Bill,s cell# 206 793 -1276

Phillip marvetz · 06-29-2011, 11:43 AM

Just an idea here, I have a iron roller cam from comp in one of the bracket cars. I was concerned it wasn't a billet steel like all the other rollers I had bought from them when it arrived but after a phone call I was informed that they do make iron roller cams also, It seem to be the same material as a flat tappet cam just ground without the crown on the lobe. You should be able to have them grind a cam like this for the slant also. Have you figured out the lifters yet? How much lift are you trying to get?

bill dedman · 06-29-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Pagano

Someone grinds a cam for a 6 , what about the stockers like Bushmaker and I cant remember the other one. Look them up
Bill,s cell# 206 793 -1276

Bob, Bushmaker's car runs a 360 V8, and his daughter's Valiant runs a 273 V8.... I don't know of any slant 6 cars he ever had anything to do with.

Thanks for the response.

bill dedman · 06-29-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip marvetz

Just an idea here, I have a iron roller cam from comp in one of the bracket cars. I was concerned it wasn't a billet steel like all the other rollers I had bought from them when it arrived but after a phone call I was informed that they do make iron roller cams also, It seem to be the same material as a flat tappet cam just ground without the crown on the lobe. You should be able to have them grind a cam like this for the slant also. Have you figured out the lifters yet? How much lift are you trying to get?

I'll call Comp again, but the last time I talked to them they had NO rollers for the /6 motor.
That was about a year ago...

I only need .500" lift. This is a race-only app, so I am not much concerned about longivity.

I'll let you know what they say.

Thanks for the info!!!

bill dedman · 06-29-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dedman

I'll call Comp again, but the last time I talked to them they had NO rollers for the /6 motor.
That was about a year ago...

I only need .500" lift. This is a race-only app, so I am not much concerned about longivity.

I'll let you know what they say.

Thanks for the info!!!

Well, Phillip, I called Comp Cams and talked to a tech there named "Buggy."

Here's what he said: " I don't know where Phillip got a roller cam for a /6, but we don't grind one. We have NO blanks for a /6 roller motor. If you send us a blank, maybe we could grind you one, but we have no source for a roller blank for that motor."

So, maybe somebody ELSE ground that iron roller cam for you????

Curious minds want to know....

Charles Rainey · 06-29-2011, 02:33 PM

Philip/Bill
I cannot tell you if you can metal spray a cam and make it live, but I can tell you what I tried. A few years back I wanted to make my on grind, so I metal sprayed a cast cam just to try. Man I CNC "grinded" this cam and it looked awesome. Put a set of rollers on it and seemed to be ok. Well I lost control of the rpm and every thing in the engine was wearing metal spray. Bearings and pistons looked awesome. i got some picture some place but I hid them so no one would know how dumb I was. I think what happened was that I lost control of the roller lifter and it banged the shaft and just peeled the spray right off or it was the point contact of the roller. Dont know which cause I was afraid to talked to any body about it cause I was so dumb. But what I finally did was get a billet steel blank and had a guy with a lathe to make me a billet with all the knobs on it then I sent and had it ground. Might want to try that if you have some one handy on a lathe. CNC grinders make it pretty easy for people like Lunati or Comp to do that now. Was hard to do when you had to use masters

bill dedman · 06-29-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Rainey

Philip/Bill
I cannot tell you if you can metal spray a cam and make it live, but I can tell you what I tried. A few years back I wanted to make my on grind, so I metal sprayed a cast cam just to try. Man I CNC "grinded" this cam and it looked awesome. Put a set of rollers on it and seemed to be ok. Well I lost control of the rpm and every thing in the engine was wearing metal spray. Bearings and pistons looked awesome. i got some picture some place but I hid them so no one would know how dumb I was. I think what happened was that I lost control of the roller lifter and it banged the shaft and just peeled the spray right off or it was the point contact of the roller. Dont know which cause I was afraid to talked to any body about it cause I was so dumb. But what I finally did was get a billet steel blank and had a guy with a lathe to make me a billet with all the knobs on it then I sent and had it ground. Might want to try that if you have some one handy on a lathe. CNC grinders make it pretty easy for people like Lunati or Comp to do that now. Was hard to do when you had to use masters

Thanks for that info. Where did you get it sprayed?

Philip Saran · 06-29-2011, 04:03 PM

Bill,

This may be a long shot, but try contacting this company,
they specialize in all things 6 cylinder.

CLIFFORD PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS INC.
22850 Sheffield Crt
Wildomar, CA 92595

1-951-471-1161 or Fax 1-951-471-0993

www.cliffordperformance.net

email for tech: Larry@cliffordperformance.net

Charles Rainey · 06-29-2011, 04:13 PM

Bill
The place that did mine is no longer in business but the best place too look is a industrial repair shop. The ones that use spray process is people that repair shafts for electric motors or conveyor repair. Many industrial repair shops use them every day. I really feel it will work if the point load contact is not too high. The process used to day is more stable than what I used then and I was really suprised how hard the surface was. Had too be ground as it was well into the Rockwell C scale. And it takes very little time to do it. You will need to have some high temp insulation to put between each journal as you spray.
charles

06-29-2011, 01:24 AM	#1
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Is it feasible to metal spray a cam? You cannot buy a roller cam for a Mopar slant 6 because there are NO blanks for a roller in that engine. Nobody seems to have one. You CAN get a blank made for $1,000.00, but it won't include the gear for the oil pump drive and distributor drive on it, requiring you to have to employ an aftermarket, accessory-drive oil pump (gilmer belt?) and a crank trigger ignition.... a lot of extra trouble and expense. I was curious if any cam grinders were able to metal spray a new steel flat tappet cam with enough material to make a roller profile from that original flat tappet cam. I know it will take extra material for the "fatter" roller lobe profile. Years ago, stroker cranks were created by metal sprayng to build up crankpins to larger diameters, which were then ground "offest" to increase the stroke. I don't think they use that method any more.... but I don't know. Is metal spraying ever used on camshafts? Is a roller-lifter cam subject to less damaging unit-loading than a flat tappet cam, since the lifter wheel just rolls over the surface, and doesn't abraid (abrade?) the surface, like a flat-tappet cam would? Or, does the roller's small contact area pose similar unit loading pressures, commensurate with a flat-tappet cam? Is this just a terrible idea, and totally unworkable? I don't know where else to go to ask for reliable information. Any ideas and information will be much appreciated! Thanks... Bill __________________ Bill

06-29-2011, 08:41 AM	#2
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 236 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Is it feasible to metal spray a cam? Someone grinds a cam for a 6 , what about the stockers like Bushmaker and I cant remember the other one. Look them up Bill,s cell# 206 793 -1276 __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA Last edited by Bob Pagano; 06-29-2011 at 08:45 AM.

06-29-2011, 11:43 AM	#3
Phillip marvetz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lynden ,WA Posts: 820 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Is it feasible to metal spray a cam? Just an idea here, I have a iron roller cam from comp in one of the bracket cars. I was concerned it wasn't a billet steel like all the other rollers I had bought from them when it arrived but after a phone call I was informed that they do make iron roller cams also, It seem to be the same material as a flat tappet cam just ground without the crown on the lobe. You should be able to have them grind a cam like this for the slant also. Have you figured out the lifters yet? How much lift are you trying to get? __________________ 2009 V/SA Record Holder

06-29-2011, 02:33 PM	#7
Charles Rainey Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 40 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Is it feasible to metal spray a cam? Philip/Bill I cannot tell you if you can metal spray a cam and make it live, but I can tell you what I tried. A few years back I wanted to make my on grind, so I metal sprayed a cast cam just to try. Man I CNC "grinded" this cam and it looked awesome. Put a set of rollers on it and seemed to be ok. Well I lost control of the rpm and every thing in the engine was wearing metal spray. Bearings and pistons looked awesome. i got some picture some place but I hid them so no one would know how dumb I was. I think what happened was that I lost control of the roller lifter and it banged the shaft and just peeled the spray right off or it was the point contact of the roller. Dont know which cause I was afraid to talked to any body about it cause I was so dumb. But what I finally did was get a billet steel blank and had a guy with a lathe to make me a billet with all the knobs on it then I sent and had it ground. Might want to try that if you have some one handy on a lathe. CNC grinders make it pretty easy for people like Lunati or Comp to do that now. Was hard to do when you had to use masters

06-29-2011, 04:03 PM	#9
Philip Saran Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Parker, CO. Posts: 728 Likes: 163 Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Is it feasible to metal spray a cam? Bill, This may be a long shot, but try contacting this company, they specialize in all things 6 cylinder. CLIFFORD PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS INC. 22850 Sheffield Crt Wildomar, CA 92595 1-951-471-1161 or Fax 1-951-471-0993 www.cliffordperformance.net email for tech: Larry@cliffordperformance.net __________________ Phil Saran Parker, Colorado

06-29-2011, 04:13 PM	#10
Charles Rainey Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 40 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Is it feasible to metal spray a cam? Bill The place that did mine is no longer in business but the best place too look is a industrial repair shop. The ones that use spray process is people that repair shafts for electric motors or conveyor repair. Many industrial repair shops use them every day. I really feel it will work if the point load contact is not too high. The process used to day is more stable than what I used then and I was really suprised how hard the surface was. Had too be ground as it was well into the Rockwell C scale. And it takes very little time to do it. You will need to have some high temp insulation to put between each journal as you spray. charles