gas for racing?

rod · 02-24-2010, 08:32 PM

my car used to run good on pump gas [back in the day, when i could get 100 octane at the pump or even when it dropped down to 96]. now, however the best i can get here is 91 octane. real race gas is over $11.00, which is just out of line.
so i have several questions.
since pump gas already has 10% alky + elevation additive [i'm at 3450 feet], what about adding some E-85 and jetting up?
what is the octane rating of E-85?
how much av gas can you add to pump gas to get some help? [ i know low-lead av gas has more lead that old car gas when it was low lead, and octane rating for av. gas does not translate directly to car octane]?
20+ years ago i tried mixing weird stuff and it either didn't work, was expensive or just not worth the mess. so no octane booster or hardware store liquids.

thanks rod

427_ED · 02-24-2010, 10:08 PM

If there's a motorcycle shop that caters to dirt bikes, try them. They usually have VP for the racers. E85 will require replacing all of the rubber parts of your fuel system, hoses, pump diaphrams, etc. The guys at Quick Fuel can help you with the E85. Is E85 available in your area?

Chris "drooze" Wertman · 02-24-2010, 10:22 PM

If its a daily driver and you have E85 coming out the ears like we do, its a good choce.

Like Ed says you will need to replace stuff, but well.....in the long run it will be cheaper and a good long term solution in my opinion.

E85 Octane runs between about 95 (in winter months they mix it about 70-30 for easier starting) and about 105 when its full 85% (E85 is NOT always 85% ethanol)

The ethanol has good vaporization at altitude , so not a bad option for you....

Edlebrock now sells an E85 Carb I think....?

Since I have no idea what kind of car or other reqs you have....

The twin turbo 5.7 hemi I am building for my 72 challenger is going to be an E85 motor, I have some 11:1 pistons, and well with the turbos....I need to run it. Im not going to run much boost normally so, it will work good, everywhere the car will go is within 10 miles of an E85 pump at home. (Plus with the E85 I can run 11:1 pistons with a turbo ....)

I wil have a second fuel map for "emergency" gas usage but....E85 is Zee plan...

I like it, runs good expect about 1/2 the mileage out of the ethanol component than Gasoline, so if its 85% Ethanol (like in the summer) then about 42.5 less MPG than just gas alone. Which makes it pricey as well when you take that into account. (well about 42 % more than gasoline

We played with low lead avgas 110 octane I think, but we had problems as well, the stuff is made to vaporize at 12k feet not 800ft like us....never did get our custom formulations "quite right" like you.......

So we went to methanol and nitro

Quote:

Originally Posted by 427_ED

If there's a motorcycle shop that caters to dirt bikes, try them. They usually have VP for the racers. E85 will require replacing all of the rubber parts of your fuel system, hoses, pump diaphrams, etc. The guys at Quick Fuel can help you with the E85. Is E85 available in your area?

rod · 02-25-2010, 09:28 PM

i called the airport av gas place today. the lady will no longer sell av. gas, except to planes. no way to collect road sales tax. she didn't even want to talk to me.! so that is another avenue shot in the butt. rod

Bimbo Jones · 02-26-2010, 10:22 AM

I quit using race gas several years ago and went to straight AV gas in my wagon. My dragster uses methanol with injection. Both cars are bracket raced so a fuel passing tech is not an issue. Last season I switched the wagon over to E85 and was very pleased. I picked a couple of hundrenths but the main bennefit was cooling down time. I don't turn on the water pump until the motor reaches 150 to 160 degrees and I only need to turn on the radiator fan on the return road when it gets up to around 175 to 180. By the time I reach my pit it is back to 150 or so degrees. I could go straight to the starting line without issues. I liked it so well I'm switching my dragster over to E85. I know gas prices have gone up lately, but last season I was paying around 2 dollars a gallon for E85 and 10 cents less if I used my Krogers dicount card. LOL If you are racing with a Holley HP style carb I see no reason not to make the change. I wish someone would make the effort to research what the effects and requirements would be on Stock or super stock racing. In places like Canada where leaded gasoline is such a hot button topic it would be great to be able to shut up those critics. Also it would be funny to let the rich boys with the airplanes struggle with the leaded fuel issues as our northern racers have done for years. Yes, my races cars have gone green.

SCOTT SST2871 · 02-26-2010, 11:00 AM

I ran av gas for about 10 years with no problem,before i switched to methanol!!just carried my jugs into the airport and didnt say what it was for
scott fifield

Bimbo Jones · 02-26-2010, 11:38 AM

When I was running AV gas we had several local smaller airports in the DFW area that we would go to after hours. Because the airport was open to air traffic 24/7 they would leave the pumps on and debit cards would activate them just like any gas station. BTW, I know the fuel is for planes only but if your using it for race cars only why would the lady use road tax issues for a reason not to sell it to you. Unless your driving this car on the street. But it is a major no-no to put the nozzel into a car to get fuel. We have one real little air strip that is more than happy to sell it to us because is is affraid he'll loose his fuel allotment. Good luck on your quest for fuel.

02-24-2010, 08:32 PM	#1
rod Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kingman, NW AZ. in the middle of the longest stretch of Route 66 Posts: 313 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts	gas for racing? my car used to run good on pump gas [back in the day, when i could get 100 octane at the pump or even when it dropped down to 96]. now, however the best i can get here is 91 octane. real race gas is over $11.00, which is just out of line. so i have several questions. since pump gas already has 10% alky + elevation additive [i'm at 3450 feet], what about adding some E-85 and jetting up? what is the octane rating of E-85? how much av gas can you add to pump gas to get some help? [ i know low-lead av gas has more lead that old car gas when it was low lead, and octane rating for av. gas does not translate directly to car octane]? 20+ years ago i tried mixing weird stuff and it either didn't work, was expensive or just not worth the mess. so no octane booster or hardware store liquids. thanks rod

02-24-2010, 10:08 PM	#2
427_ED Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Nicholasville, KY Posts: 265 Likes: 54 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: gas for racing? If there's a motorcycle shop that caters to dirt bikes, try them. They usually have VP for the racers. E85 will require replacing all of the rubber parts of your fuel system, hoses, pump diaphrams, etc. The guys at Quick Fuel can help you with the E85. Is E85 available in your area?

02-25-2010, 09:28 PM	#4
rod Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kingman, NW AZ. in the middle of the longest stretch of Route 66 Posts: 313 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 15 Posts	Re: gas for racing? i called the airport av gas place today. the lady will no longer sell av. gas, except to planes. no way to collect road sales tax. she didn't even want to talk to me.! so that is another avenue shot in the butt. rod

02-26-2010, 10:22 AM	#5
Bimbo Jones Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 109 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: gas for racing? I quit using race gas several years ago and went to straight AV gas in my wagon. My dragster uses methanol with injection. Both cars are bracket raced so a fuel passing tech is not an issue. Last season I switched the wagon over to E85 and was very pleased. I picked a couple of hundrenths but the main bennefit was cooling down time. I don't turn on the water pump until the motor reaches 150 to 160 degrees and I only need to turn on the radiator fan on the return road when it gets up to around 175 to 180. By the time I reach my pit it is back to 150 or so degrees. I could go straight to the starting line without issues. I liked it so well I'm switching my dragster over to E85. I know gas prices have gone up lately, but last season I was paying around 2 dollars a gallon for E85 and 10 cents less if I used my Krogers dicount card. LOL If you are racing with a Holley HP style carb I see no reason not to make the change. I wish someone would make the effort to research what the effects and requirements would be on Stock or super stock racing. In places like Canada where leaded gasoline is such a hot button topic it would be great to be able to shut up those critics. Also it would be funny to let the rich boys with the airplanes struggle with the leaded fuel issues as our northern racers have done for years. Yes, my races cars have gone green.

02-26-2010, 11:00 AM	#6
SCOTT SST2871 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PORT ST JOHN FLORIDA Posts: 226 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: gas for racing? I ran av gas for about 10 years with no problem,before i switched to methanol!!just carried my jugs into the airport and didnt say what it was for scott fifield

02-26-2010, 11:38 AM	#7
Bimbo Jones Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 109 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: gas for racing? When I was running AV gas we had several local smaller airports in the DFW area that we would go to after hours. Because the airport was open to air traffic 24/7 they would leave the pumps on and debit cards would activate them just like any gas station. BTW, I know the fuel is for planes only but if your using it for race cars only why would the lady use road tax issues for a reason not to sell it to you. Unless your driving this car on the street. But it is a major no-no to put the nozzel into a car to get fuel. We have one real little air strip that is more than happy to sell it to us because is is affraid he'll loose his fuel allotment. Good luck on your quest for fuel.