cbs latest on handbrakes? - Page 3

darkside · 04-25-2011, 07:41 AM

Most if not all can slide the back tires with 2 calipers. Now put 4 calipers on at once and it only takes half the force of your foot and the back tires lock up.

It's kinda like helmets, 99% of the time we don't need them. However if the brakes go out the second set would have saved at least 5 crashes that I know of.

Why don't you come over at Indy and I can show you what I am talking about, most people even that own dragsters don't know the benifits, myself included til I got them.

Mickey Whaley · 04-25-2011, 10:09 AM

Lynn is right dual calipers are a receipe for a barrel roll the handbrake would just be a backup system I think the chassis builders should get on nhra's *** and get the ball rolling, i was told they are still legal in ihra??

danny waters sr · 04-25-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey Whaley

Lynn is right dual calipers are a receipe for a barrel roll the handbrake would just be a backup system I think the chassis builders should get on nhra's *** and get the ball rolling, i was told they are still legal in ihra??

They are legal Mickey

Maverick · 04-25-2011, 10:20 AM

I am just wondering, what was the cause of the brake failure for the foot brake not to work on the car, and the cause of the other five cars that had the failures. I talked to the potato digger driver after he ran off the end of the track and the brake line between the calipers was replaced and was rubbing the wheel. Is it a master cylinders failure? caliper failure? Line failure? I had a master cylinder go away on me, but I caught it before I went to the track. Just asking and wondering. Steve Willie Williams

darkside · 04-25-2011, 10:40 AM

Maverick, so far I have shaken the resivor off once and still had brakes, go figure. But when I completely lost the foot brake the line shook loose at the master cyl. TD tire shake does lots of wierd stuff!

Maverick · 04-25-2011, 11:06 AM

I am sorry, but that is scary. I had a JFZ master cylinder go away on me and I put a 1 1/16 mopar type master cylinder with the plastic reservoir on it, and had issues with the stroke not being long enough for what I do, so I spent twice as much to get a 7/8 inch all aluminum Wilwood master cylinder, Never has a issue yet, but it is big and bulky.

Chris Williams · 04-25-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Beckman

But realy guys, you can use a dual master cylinder, with 2 resivours and get the same redundant system your after without the drama of "I want a hand brake". Unless your left foot does not work.

That's what we have.

Ron Finney · 04-25-2011, 12:59 PM

Let me answer for Jeff. You would plumb one set to the front half of the cylinder and the second set to the back half of the cylinder. The dual master IS for safety that is why it is federally mandated on all US vehicles since the mid 1960's. If you have hydraulic failure, the pedal will drop some, but a rod inside the piston assembly will manually push the other pistion in the cylinder to apply the brakes on the other line. I guess I agree with Jeff, that the hand brake is more of a finish line enhancement than safety. If we are going to go the safety route, then that means every car needs a hand brake.

If you only have one set of rear calipers and no front brakes, then even a handbrake isn't going to help you, so where is the safety again?

darkside · 04-25-2011, 03:43 PM

The handbrakes we are talking about does have 2 seperate sets of rear calipers.

Can anyone tell me anyone who drives the finish line with the hand brake? I have yet to find anyone.

It is a great safty feature that SHOULD be mandatory on all cars over 150...in my opinion.
And it is an awesome addition to getting the car out of the trailer easily by yourself, lol.

Don't forget to bring your tux to Indy, Royal Wedding Friday morning!

krugracing12 · 04-25-2011, 03:47 PM

The second or hand brake system is independent of the foot system. the only common pieces between them are the brake rotor and the plate from the rear end that holds the dual calipers. The safety comes from if there is a failure of any brake part other than those, you still have brakes. If you break a line or fitting, pedal/rod falls off or other M/C failure or a pad or the caliper fails, you still have a complete braking system to stop the car. Ten years ago I broke a simple fitting on the only brake line at LVD and crashed, the brakes were fine when I staged but at the stripe the pedal went right to floor with nothing. My new dragster has 2 independent sets so that a simple failure wont wreck me again. The failure would have to be very severe to disable both sets at the same time.
I was told by D-1 Tech Director Ryck Campbell during chassis cert that the rule book states if they work together having the 2nd brake is legal, meaning if you pull the hand brake and the pedal moves and vise-versa its legal. I am now fashioning an adjustable morse cable between them to comply with the rule without taking the handle out. I have no intention of doubling my single motion brake capacity, either system individually will easily lock the brakes up at any speed. Just comply the one of the more poorly thought out rules to come along in a while.

Bill Krug
T/D 1531
S/C 1531
S/G 153K

04-25-2011, 07:41 AM	#21
darkside Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 56 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? Most if not all can slide the back tires with 2 calipers. Now put 4 calipers on at once and it only takes half the force of your foot and the back tires lock up. It's kinda like helmets, 99% of the time we don't need them. However if the brakes go out the second set would have saved at least 5 crashes that I know of. Why don't you come over at Indy and I can show you what I am talking about, most people even that own dragsters don't know the benifits, myself included til I got them. __________________ Lynn Ellison Last edited by darkside; 04-25-2011 at 08:02 AM.

04-25-2011, 10:09 AM	#22
Mickey Whaley VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,220 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? Lynn is right dual calipers are a receipe for a barrel roll the handbrake would just be a backup system I think the chassis builders should get on nhra's *** and get the ball rolling, i was told they are still legal in ihra??

04-25-2011, 10:20 AM	#24
Maverick Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 291 Likes: 2 Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? I am just wondering, what was the cause of the brake failure for the foot brake not to work on the car, and the cause of the other five cars that had the failures. I talked to the potato digger driver after he ran off the end of the track and the brake line between the calipers was replaced and was rubbing the wheel. Is it a master cylinders failure? caliper failure? Line failure? I had a master cylinder go away on me, but I caught it before I went to the track. Just asking and wondering. Steve Willie Williams Last edited by Maverick; 04-25-2011 at 10:41 AM.

04-25-2011, 10:40 AM	#25
darkside Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 56 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? Maverick, so far I have shaken the resivor off once and still had brakes, go figure. But when I completely lost the foot brake the line shook loose at the master cyl. TD tire shake does lots of wierd stuff! __________________ Lynn Ellison

04-25-2011, 11:06 AM	#26
Maverick Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 291 Likes: 2 Liked 26 Times in 19 Posts	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? I am sorry, but that is scary. I had a JFZ master cylinder go away on me and I put a 1 1/16 mopar type master cylinder with the plastic reservoir on it, and had issues with the stroke not being long enough for what I do, so I spent twice as much to get a 7/8 inch all aluminum Wilwood master cylinder, Never has a issue yet, but it is big and bulky.

04-25-2011, 12:59 PM	#28
Ron Finney Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greenwood, IN Posts: 168 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? Let me answer for Jeff. You would plumb one set to the front half of the cylinder and the second set to the back half of the cylinder. The dual master IS for safety that is why it is federally mandated on all US vehicles since the mid 1960's. If you have hydraulic failure, the pedal will drop some, but a rod inside the piston assembly will manually push the other pistion in the cylinder to apply the brakes on the other line. I guess I agree with Jeff, that the hand brake is more of a finish line enhancement than safety. If we are going to go the safety route, then that means every car needs a hand brake. If you only have one set of rear calipers and no front brakes, then even a handbrake isn't going to help you, so where is the safety again? __________________ Ron Finney 396V S/C

04-25-2011, 03:43 PM	#29
darkside Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 56 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? The handbrakes we are talking about does have 2 seperate sets of rear calipers. Can anyone tell me anyone who drives the finish line with the hand brake? I have yet to find anyone. It is a great safty feature that SHOULD be mandatory on all cars over 150...in my opinion. And it is an awesome addition to getting the car out of the trailer easily by yourself, lol. Don't forget to bring your tux to Indy, Royal Wedding Friday morning! __________________ Lynn Ellison

04-25-2011, 03:47 PM	#30
krugracing12 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 171 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: cbs latest on handbrakes? The second or hand brake system is independent of the foot system. the only common pieces between them are the brake rotor and the plate from the rear end that holds the dual calipers. The safety comes from if there is a failure of any brake part other than those, you still have brakes. If you break a line or fitting, pedal/rod falls off or other M/C failure or a pad or the caliper fails, you still have a complete braking system to stop the car. Ten years ago I broke a simple fitting on the only brake line at LVD and crashed, the brakes were fine when I staged but at the stripe the pedal went right to floor with nothing. My new dragster has 2 independent sets so that a simple failure wont wreck me again. The failure would have to be very severe to disable both sets at the same time. I was told by D-1 Tech Director Ryck Campbell during chassis cert that the rule book states if they work together having the 2nd brake is legal, meaning if you pull the hand brake and the pedal moves and vise-versa its legal. I am now fashioning an adjustable morse cable between them to comply with the rule without taking the handle out. I have no intention of doubling my single motion brake capacity, either system individually will easily lock the brakes up at any speed. Just comply the one of the more poorly thought out rules to come along in a while. Bill Krug T/D 1531 S/C 1531 S/G 153K