Red light debate update.

[Bob Bender]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Mark,you been drinking the Kool Aid?:>):>):>):>)

ED, are u off ur meds again ????????????????????/

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by John Kelley

The Battered wife........
"Well he's been beating me since we got married 23 years ago so I figured that was the way it was supposed to be......."
But the breakout rule was changed...LONG AGO........ :-)

address point number 3, where this has not been implemented anywhere, and until it has, class racing has much bigger fish to fry

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

address point number 3, where this has not been implemented anywhere, and until it has, class racing has much bigger fish to fry

Another lame distraction from the issue at hand...........

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

For those of you who seem to enjoy this "status quo" so much, need to remember,

1975-6 flat out racing, when the most underrated combo usually won.

1977, when you had to be dialed ON the index throughout the whole meet, or

1978, when you had to dial under, one hour before the start of eliminations and be stuck with it all day ??

The changes that ensued when the newer electronics were available, were all positive; wouldn't you agree ?

I agree Mark, which is why I sided with Bill last year when this debate was waged. Chad Rhodes brought up some credible points about us choosing are car/engine/performance combos, however if the worst redlight rule won't be considered (thus putting the same pressure on the second driver to leave the line as the first), then the worst breakout rule should be repealed...what's fair at one end of the track should be fair at the other!!!

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by GarysZ24

I agree Mark, which is why I sided with Bill last year when this debate was waged. Chad Rhodes brought up some credible points about us choosing are car/engine/performance combos, however if the worst redlight rule won't be considered (thus putting the same pressure on the second driver to leave the line as the first), then the worst breakout rule should be repealed...what's fair at one end of the track should be fair at the other!!!

I can envision a good close final...................ruined by two guys on the brakes so hard the both run into each other. That's an aweful idea

[wagonboy]

Chad, I have read your arguments and one seems contradictory. You said that class racing has bigger fish to fry and that it is important to get younger people involved. You mean younger racers who do not have a lot of money to spend on a race car ?.... that would probably have to build a slow car, and would have to go in knowing they have a disadvantage from the get go ? Seems you could entice younger racers with smaller budgets better, if they knew they would have a equal shot. That might boost intrest. I have no problem with the worst red light rule, equals things up.

Thanks

Ryan Smith 723R

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

I can envision a good close final...................ruined by two guys on the brakes so hard the both run into each other. That's an aweful idea

Let's not have them get on the brakes and bring out the first or worst double break out rule.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

I can envision a good close final...................ruined by two guys on the brakes so hard the both run into each other. That's an aweful idea

I don't know that it's so awful, as long as your chassis/suspension/brakes are set up as many racers who hit the binders at the finish line are, so as to keep their vehicles under control no matter what...I remember a final from back in the late '70s to early '80s between I believe Jim Van Cleve, and Dave Boertman...both had Super Stockers that were at the fast end of Super Stock Eliminator, and both locked up their brakes so hard that they had a photo taken of them trailing tire smoke from their cars, and no wreck. Granted Glendora frowns on that now, but as long as you're not trailing smoke (or get squirley), then it's been acceptable because so many racers do it.

Bottom line, my ideal may be awful (sorry no "e" in awful), but neither is not having a worse redlight adjustment made to the tree, to give the same pressure to the faster car in a handicapped race for his rt., as the slower car. In a heads-up race, both cars have the same pressure, so why not change the tree for handicapped races too. As far as I'm concerned, if it's not changed, then I'd like to see wheelie bars ousted from rwd stockers if they won't be allowed on fwd stockers too....

[Sean Kennedy]

Originally Posted by wagonboy

Chad, I have read your arguments and one seems contradictory. You said that class racing has bigger fish to fry and that it is important to get younger people involved. You mean younger racers who do not have a lot of money to spend on a race car ?.... that would probably have to build a slow car, and would have to go in knowing they have a disadvantage from the get go ? Seems you could entice younger racers with smaller budgets better, if they knew they would have a equal shot. That might boost intrest. I have no problem with the worst red light rule, equals things up.

Thanks

Ryan Smith 723R

100% spot on.

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

Bill, read very carefully what I am writing here.

1) i, and most others, believe what you are saying about it being fair, its right there if you do the math. SO give that argument up.

Chad, I'm not sure what math you are referring to but I've showed the math on the last thread. I'll show it again at the end of this post. Bill Dedman and his supporters are the only ones making sense. The rule clearly favors faster cars from a probability standpoint. Who cares if Bill is a bracket racer? I am a bracket racer too. Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know if you've noticed but from Friday-Sunday, Stock and Super Stock are in fact bracket races. I still have not read one single valid argument defending the rule as it stands, not even one! Unless of course "That's the way it is.. Stop whining...Bill is only a bracket racer, not a SS racer..." can be considered valid with their clear and concise reasoning.

If the only thing keeping it from being changed however many years ago was a software issue, then there is no reason not to change it now. The Worst red light rule is currently in effect for Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Pro Stock Bike, Super Street, Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Stock Class, and Stock Class. Why not for Stock and Super Stock eliminations? As far as brackets, the rule should also be introduced and enforced in all classes, especially in Super Eliminator where both drivers leave off the top bulb at the same time with the crosstalk feature. Give me one good reason why the first guy to redlight should ever lose in Super? I'm guessing his dragster might possibly distract the other dragster's delay box..

Here it is in stat terms again. We will use discrete probability and analyze our sample space of four possible outcomes: both drivers green, first guy green and second guy red, first guy red and second guy green, both drivers red. In order for an event to be a "fair" event in the world of probability, all possible outcomes but possess equal probability, in this case each of the 4 outcomes should have a probability of 1/4 or .25. With our current system, the first two scenarios possess a probability of .25 (Probability of first guy going green = .5 AND probability of second guy going green = .5 so we multiply these to get a probability of .25 for this outcome. Same calculation for second outcome)

However, the third scenario possesses a probability of 1/2 or .5. (Probability of first guy going red = .5 AND probability of second guy going green = 1 since he/she has already won. Multiply these and we get .5). The probability of the last event is actually 0 because currently it can't happen and we revert to scenario 3. Since each outcome doesn't have the same probability, this event fails the "fair" event test. Conclusion: The first driver to leave is 25% more likely to lose the race on the starting line than the second driver.