Is there any hope of NHRA separating traditional Stockers...

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by D.Johns

He states the reason in his post.

“As the OEM's have improved the efficiency of the engines there are not the same gains to be had as older combinations.”

The new manufacturing process and standards has eliminated 30hp by turning a screw and 60hp by rebuilding a slapped together carburetor and adjusting the cam or machining with better tooling.

Plus with standards with SAE there is less “slide of hand” items to overrate/underrate due to insurance, advertising etc. HP ratings have to repeatable and within a window.

Yeah, I guess the modern HP ratings are why the new " package cars" can have higher comprssion ratios, bigger cams, larger throttle bodys, and less rated HP than the actual cars that the manufacturers sell to the public. (At least until they eventually get factored).

[6130]

Originally Posted by Barry Polley

I'll have to AGREE with 6130 on this one. There is no way in h... that a traditional stocker (paper or not) can run with a Factory race car in A-Z Stock! Furthermore.... For you to direct discussion by implying when...... the quota is reduced to 32 somehow NHRA 's intent is to get rid of pre 80 cars is a joke! Before you ask; are you currently running in stock, when was the the last time you raced? I have been a member for MANY Many years and yes I am current in stock. I think the FS show is nice but not for me. I am not the only one that thinks the new ringer cars do not belong in traditional classes. I just can't let 6130 take a tongue lashing by himself. He has a valid point.

Thanks, brother.

[6130]

Originally Posted by Jim Wahl

A '98 LT1 Camaro and Firebird is a paper car. Just sayin'. Jim

.

I just got that. The '98 cars were LS1s, weren't they? What's NHRA's explanation for the '98 LT1?

[D.Johns]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Yeah, I guess the modern HP ratings are why the new " package cars" can have higher comprssion ratios, bigger cams, larger throttle bodys, and less rated HP than the actual cars that the manufacturers sell to the public. (At least until they eventually get factored).

Do not confuse NHRA rating and consumer SAE ratings. The NHRA usually took the original manufacturers ratings at face value on most VIN # cars. Example of say an L88 factory rated at 430hp actually made closer to 560hp. Compared to a 5.0(302) coyote at 425hp actually making 435hp and would take ported heads, cams and intake to make 560-600hp(500rwhp).

Now was the 08-later “package cars” underrated? Absolutely. The 425hp 5.4/2.3TVS was actually 605hp

As far as the Ford side of things a large chunk of the turnkey cars used factory part #s/castings. A huge amount of the parts are on the VIN car if you choose to build one from that and you can go to the Ford dealer to order the remaining parts(even the blower was a dealer installed option that would retain the factory warranty/emissions)

[6130]

As I've been away from the sport for a quarter of a century or so, can someone explain to me (in simple terms) the degree of separation that the Factory Showdown provides between regular Stockers and the factory race cars? The YouTube videos I've seen show the factory race cars racing against regular stockers- I don't understand.

[D.Johns]

Originally Posted by 6130

As I've been away from the sport for a quarter of a century or so, can someone explain to me (in simple terms) the degree of separation that the Factory Showdown provides between regular Stockers and the factory race cars? The YouTube videos I've seen show the factory race cars racing against regular stockers- I don't understand.

The Factory Stock Showdown is a heads up class completely separate from Stock eliminator. Only ran st 7 events and only the quick 16 get into the show. Don’t qualify you go home. *Any year (08-present) Factory SC engine in any year (08-present) factory drag car. All other Stk rules apply with min weights set based on engine combo. 2.3/5.4 is 3350 and 2.9/all other engine sizes is 3550#

The “Factory Stock” “paper” cars 08-present have the FS designation in stock and super stock for their class within stk/SS. Normal stk/SS rules apply. Same class is heads up run all else bracket race.

[fastlane]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Hey Newbie, the thing that is going to keep the FS/ thing alive is going to be the 9" tires. You knew what you were getting into when you opened your wallet. Drag Racing isn't safe. If you don't like 9" tires then back-half your car and go SS Racing.

As far as a newbie I have been racing since 1965 that's 54 years longer then a lot of racers have been alive. The reason I mention the 9 inch tire is in the context of having a separate class for factory hot rods, they have been a large percentage number of factory hot rods that have hit the wall and crashed. If NHRA was going to put them in a separate class there is no mandate for staying with a 9 inch tire on a 160-170 mph car . I don't recall that I ever said I didn't want to race on a 9 inch tire there is no need for me to backhalf my car I can put on a bigger tire and run in SS my index only goes down from 9.40 to 9.20. The thread was about
separating traditional stock class from the new factory cars. And if that was done there could be lots of changes. There is already a separate class for them FS/XX heads up it is the now the most popular new class and if NHRA gets smart they will expand it to all events instead of just 7 and that would make everyone happy.

[6130]

Originally Posted by D.Johns

The Factory Stock Showdown is a heads up class completely separate from Stock eliminator. Only ran st 7 events and only the quick 16 get into the show. Don’t qualify you go home. *Any year (08-present) Factory SC engine in any year (08-present) factory drag car. All other Stk rules apply with min weights set based on engine combo. 2.3/5.4 is 3350 and 2.9/all other engine sizes is 3550#

The “Factory Stock” “paper” cars 08-present have the FS designation in stock and super stock for their class within stk/SS. Normal stk/SS rules apply. Same class is heads up run all else bracket race.

Thank you.

So the supercharged factory race cars can run Stock Eliminator OR the Factory Stock Showdown, but the normally-aspirated variants can only run in Stock Eliminator?

[D.Johns]

Originally Posted by 6130

Thanks.

So the supercharged factory race cars can run Stock Eliminator OR the Factory Stock Showdown, but the normally-aspirated variants can only run in Stock Eliminator?

Correct...

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by fastlane

The thread was about
separating traditional stock class from the new factory cars. And if that was done there could be lots of changes. There is already a separate class for them FS/XX heads up it is the now the most popular new class and if NHRA gets smart they will expand it to all events instead of just 7 and that would make everyone happy.

NHRA is not going to separate the NEW factory STOCK cars from the TRADITIONAL factory STOCK cars. Other than a VIN, which the new cars don't have because of federal EPA and safety regulations, there is no difference between a 68 Cobra Jet and a 2008 Cobra Jet. Or a 69 COPO and a 2012 COPO or a Hemi Dart and a Drag Pack. They have definitely increased interest in Stock Eliminator so whether I like them or not, I like them.

I would LOVE to see the FS/XX thing become 21st Century Pro Stock BUT NHRA has an incredible knack for ruining things by changing them to make them better. The "hot lick" with people younger than me right now is the "Street Outlaws" and "no prep" stuff and by leaving the 9" tires on the cars, the "tuners" are the ones winning some of the races not the guys throwing the most money at the track.