Is there any hope of NHRA separating traditional Stockers...

[kdanner]

Originally Posted by 6130

Brother, I'm home sick today, and simply trying to express my opinion- not looking for an argument.

My "VIN" response was an attempt to provide a simple answer- I didn't realize that there were Stockers built from bodies in white.

I'm just not a fan of allowing cars in stock using combinations that were never available for road use- Camaros that come with Ford 9" rear ends, V10/Powerglide Challengers, and so on...that's just silly.

I'm not looking for an argument either, trying to figure out just what it is you're after.

So based on your latest response, you'd also be against all those old Chevrolets running a 3 speed trans that only came with a Powerglide originally? Putting a 12 bolt rear in a car that never came with one? Putting a metric 200 in a car that never came with one? Putting a solid axle under a Corvette? What about all the aftermarket cylinder heads are you against those?

I want to make it clear, I am not advocating for any of this. I'm just trying to figure out what you are advocating for.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by 6130

Not sure what you're getting at. I'm the OP, and I very much like the idea of an A/SA '98-'02 LS-powered Camaro. The COPO...not so much...

FYI, the LS1 is a '00 - '02 combination in the Camaro.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by GUMP

FYI, the LS1 is a '00 - '02 combination in the Camaro.

I always found that strange, since the LS1 was in '97 Corvettes, and '98/'02 F body cars.
Hard to find '98 LT1s.
I was told why, but it's bogus.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

I was told why, but it's bogus.

That's the problem with this entire thread. It doesn't matter what people feel is "bogus". It what has been submitted by the manufacturers. It's in the guide and it fits the rules.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by Jesse Kershaw

The package cars exist because NHRA did not have a way for late model production cars to compete with the older cars. The package car rule was the only way to get the manufacturers involved in Stock and Super Stock 10 years ago.

The initial low HP ratings on the cars were because there was no place else for them to go, at the time it was 7.5lbs class for AA. We had to rate the cars low to have a natural class. Once all 3 OEM's got involved things changed.

Mr. Kershaw, Why do you say the without the "package" cars, the NHRA did not have a way for late models cars to compete in NHRA Stock Eliminator? New, production cars had been racing in stock for many decades, Ford, Chevy & Dodge did have high performance production versions of the Mustang, Camaro & Challanger available to the public for years before the Cobra Jet, COPO & Drag Packs were invented, just like they were in the 60s and early 70s. Why were these production new cars not viable? Factory HP ratings too high maybe? Thats the manufacturers fault, not racers or NHRAs.

[D.Johns]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Mr. Kershaw, Why do you say the without the "package" cars, the NHRA did not have a way for late models cars to compete in NHRA Stock Eliminator? New, production cars had been racing in stock for many decades, Ford, Chevy & Dodge did have high performance production versions of the Mustang, Camaro & Challanger available to the public for years before the Cobra Jet, COPO & Drag Packs were invented, just like they were in the 60s and early 70s. Why were these production new cars not viable? Factory HP ratings too high maybe? Thats the manufacturers fault, not racers or NHRAs.

He states the reason in his post.

“As the OEM's have improved the efficiency of the engines there are not the same gains to be had as older combinations.”

The new manufacturing process and standards has eliminated 30hp by turning a screw and 60hp by rebuilding a slapped together carburetor and adjusting the cam or machining with better tooling.

Plus with standards with SAE there is less “slide of hand” items to overrate/underrate due to insurance, advertising etc. HP ratings have to repeatable and within a window.

[6130]

Originally Posted by GUMP

FYI, the LS1 is a '00 - '02 combination in the Camaro.

Too much cold medicine last night.

The classification tool lists the LS1 as a '99-'02 engine for the Camaro.

[6130]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Mr. Kershaw, Why do you say the without the "package" cars, the NHRA did not have a way for late models cars to compete in NHRA Stock Eliminator? New, production cars had been racing in stock for many decades, Ford, Chevy & Dodge did have high performance production versions of the Mustang, Camaro & Challanger available to the public for years before the Cobra Jet, COPO & Drag Packs were invented, just like they were in the 60s and early 70s.

Bingo.

And although most people want to remember the "muscle" cars from the '60s as being fast (relative to late-model cars), vintage road tests reveal that most of them would have a hard time getting past a completely stock 2018 4-cylinder auto trans Mustang in a heads-up race.

[kdanner]

Originally Posted by 6130

Bingo.

And although most people want to remember the "muscle" cars from the '60s as being fast (relative to late-model cars), vintage road tests reveal that most of them would have a hard time getting past a completely stock 2018 4-cylinder auto trans Mustang in a heads-up race.

How are "completely stock" cars relevant here? That isn't what is being raced whether new or old.

[6130]

Originally Posted by kdanner

How are "completely stock" cars relevant here? That isn't what is being raced whether new or old.

As Rory pointed out, we didn't "need" factory race cars (that have never been, and never will be legal to drive on public roads) in Stock Eliminator- new regular production cars do not suffer from any lack of potential as Stock Eliminator race cars.