Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71

[bill dedman]

The dual-coupling units were used in their OEM applications because that was the NHRA class rule for Stock, but I never saw one in a Gas Coupe or Modified Production race car. Those cars would have (if they were not a manual-transmission car) an aftermarket, earlier model "Dual-Range" HydraMatic which only had a single fluid coupling.
There were several companies that sold modified units for street/strip duty and racing; the most popular was built by B & M (whose "Hysro-Stick" was a ruaway hit in the marketplace,) but, there were several others (Bee-Line, Vitar, Quartermaster, C & O Hydro, and a few whose names I can't recall at the moment.)

Though there were a lot of really fast Pontiacs (mostly,) in the "dual-coupling" period of time (1956-1963) virtually all of the HydraMatics in Gassers, Street Roadsters, Altereds and Modified Production race cars were of the earlier, "Dual-Range," single-coupling type.

BTW, "Dual-Range" was a sales gimmick, nothing more. In 1952, They (G,M,) added another position to the shifter indicator; the letter "S", for "Super." Putting the selector in that position simply kept the transmission from up-shifting into 4th (top) gear, making the car more responsive. It could also be used as a braking device at hiway speeds. Big deaL...

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Freddie Cain

Deuce Coupe,Please check your private messages.

Freddie has sent me several records sheets (thanks) and that is helping the effort. Trouble is, they are the cryptic "69 Chevy" style so you have to guess at model/engine. I am getting pretty good at it.


But here is one for any gurus:
June 1971
H/S Gary Moore-Carroll's Auto Service-Pierson Pontiac, Tulia, TX
114.06mph, Houma, LA May 71


So I am ASSUMING the car is a Pontiac but they don't even give the year. A 70 GTO 400/350 fits but that is a total guess.
Web search discovered nothing on the car.
Anybody recall?

[pauldilcher]

It was a Firebird .

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by pauldilcher

It was a Firebird .

Thanks!!
Google just needed that one extra word:


http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/...tiac-firebird/


Gary Moore of "Acre Maker" cars:
71 Firebird 455ho/335hp
12.22-114.06 h/s



Ok let me push my luck a little, here is another mystery car:
65 Winternationals
Corky Schroeder
"Pontiac" (no year / model / engine)
14.23 at 98.57 E/SA


Any ideas??

[Terry Witzel]

Found this entry list for the 1965 Winternationals, but just lists entry as a 1960 Pontiac. Number 760.

[Terry Witzel]

Here's an 'Acre Maker' '61 Pontiac.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Terry Witzel

Here's an 'Acre Maker' '61 Pontiac.

Gary Moore, Tulia Texas. Great guy, Gary and Ann still race. He had that '61 Ventura when we met them, I was driving a stock one like that (color and all) to work & back at that time.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Terry Witzel

Found this entry list for the 1965 Winternationals, but just lists entry as a 1960 Pontiac. Number 760.

Thanks Terry even that hint helps. Only 2 cars really fit, assuming there was no factoring yet:
60 Cat 9P wagon, 4360/363hp=12.01
or
60 Ventura HT, 3966/333hp=11.90 right on E/SA
So I guessed the Ventura, with prepped engine & trans, down at shipping weight, 1st try in the Gonkulator said
13.91 at 98.72
Closer than usual for a 1st guess!
I just cut down the traction G's a bit, that's all it took for
2.27
9.21 at 78.4
14.21 at 98.58
One of the fun things about re-visiting the vintage NHRA stuff with the Gonkulator is I can see about what 60ft time they must have run to jive with the rest of the combo and et/mph. 2.27 seems slow, but my daily driver cars Gonkulate to more than a 2.40 short time back in the 1970s based on the few vague scribbled timeslips I got back then. Sometimes only the ET was scribbled on the timeslip, not even the MPH! Tires were awful back then.

[ss wannabee]

I wonder when NHRA "pulled" the 4-spds out of the '57 Pass Cars...what most of the
owners did...and how much slower was the car with either a 3-spd stick...or the PG?

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by ss wannabee

I wonder when NHRA "pulled" the 4-spds out of the '57 Pass Cars...what most of the
owners did...and how much slower was the car with either a 3-spd stick...or the PG?

From what I have learned from this thread, the HAMB Junior Stock thread, and Boyce's Junior Stock book, a lot of stuff was legal in 1969 but not in 1970:
* Chev Sedan Deliveries:
* Hydramatic ok in 1969
* Had to run iron PG in 1970
From the data I have, it looks like folks lost a couple tenths at first, but as the 4000-stall converters caught on the difference almost disappeared. The Gonkulator runs I am computing show about the same.


* Chev 57-58
* 4spd ok in 1969
* Had to run 3spd in 1970
* Again, maybe a couple tenths was lost though data is sketchy, I don't have any direct before & after.
* The Gonkulator calculates that most of the loss was in the shifter - the 3-on-the-tree was a LOT slower, but even on the floor, the 1-2 shift is fast on a 4spd but slow on a 3spd (unless you get clever with the shifter as some did).