Approval of Super Stock Class Aftermarket Cylinder Heads

[Alan Roehrich]

The edit came when it struck me how far off you were from the point I was making in the post. I struggle every day trying to find parts, much less afford them, so that I can keep people racing. It's the same with every person I know in this business, especially those who are supporting class racing.



Class racing is like the Republic, it's dead if we all let it die. Class racing can survive. Hopefully the Republic can as well.



I've never been one to be concerned about the cost of a paint job, the size of a rig, or the price on a store bought car or engine. I don't judge anyone that way. I've never understood the fixation with "how much the other guy has". It ain't how I measure people, and it ain't how I compete.



I've been treated quite well by a lot of wealthy people in racing, a lot of successful racers, and some who are both. I've been treated well by people faster than us, and by people slower than us. I can say that I have been made to feel I belong, by people in racing who could lose the entire sum of my life's earnings and possessions, and not even miss it.


Sorry, those people ain't my enemies, and most of them ain't the source of my problems, or the problems faced by class racing, or the Republic. I've got more important things to worry about. You can go right on hating on whoever you want to.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ya know, back in the "good-old-days" of S/SS/Jr.S racing, everyone ran junk. Now, everyone is some kind of an elitist snob and has to have the best of everything or they can't go racing!
I think I'll just keep slingin' my junk. I'm having just as much fun and running for just as much money as the snobs.

I'll stand by my words.

I've been treated well by some very "wealthy people" in my lifetime too. A couple of them are my best friends and I would do anything for them because I know that they would do the same for me.

The "issues" facing S/SS racing (IMHO) have far more to do with the "elitist snobs" who want to keep changing the "rules" to benefit themselves and the people who are letting them get away with it. I don't personally care if a Racer wants to spend his last dime on his stuff. It's his money, he can spend it as he likes. As long as said Racer is doing it within the Rules and isn't getting "things" approved that the average Racer can't get or afford.

And "hating" is a pretty strong word. You don't know me THAT well.

[SpeierRacing]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

I'll stand by my words.

I've been treated well by some very "wealthy people" in my lifetime too. A couple of them are my best friends and I would do anything for them because I know that they would do the same for me.

The "issues" facing S/SS racing (IMHO) have far more to do with the "elitist snobs" who want to keep changing the "rules" to benefit themselves and the people who are letting them get away with it.

And "hating" is a pretty strong word. You don't know me THAT well.

I hope this doesn't come from the spirit of the original post. Because if you think it's a bad thing trying to get a head legal that we can actually get, just say that.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by SpeierRacing

I hope this doesn't come from the spirit of the original post. Because if you think it's a bad thing trying to get a head legal that we can actually get, just say that.

IMHO, if a Racer is racing a certain combo then said Racer should have parts to maintain that combo. If the parts to maintain that combo no-longer exist then maybe it's time to change your combo. UNLESS EVERY combo is given access to the SAME REPLACEMENT parts.
Just because a Racer is running a popular combo shouldn't (it does) entitle said Racer to be allowed to use parts in his combo that aren't available for every combo.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

I'll stand by my words.

I've been treated well by some very "wealthy people" in my lifetime too. A couple of them are my best friends and I would do anything for them because I know that they would do the same for me.

The "issues" facing S/SS racing (IMHO) have far more to do with the "elitist snobs" who want to keep changing the "rules" to benefit themselves and the people who are letting them get away with it.

And "hating" is a pretty strong word. You don't know me THAT well.

Apparently, you know people trying to change rules to suit themselves that I haven't met and don't know. There are a few I ain't met, and don't necessarily care to. And there are some of those who cheated, got caught, and got their cheating legalized. They're not "elitist snobs", they just cheated and got away with it. That ain't about money, other than they found someone willing to pay them to work that hard at cheating, and risk the consequences. Yeah, they screwed things up for everyone else. Hell, some of them ain't even in business anymore, some may not even be above ground. But I'd say it was more about them getting money from people who don't do their own work than it was about having money of their own.



Yeah, NHRA is a problem. And we ain't gonna change it too easy.


Yeah, I'm from the group who thinks that aftermarket parts were mostly a very bad idea, porting and polishing should never have been allowed in Super Stock, Modified cars shouldn't have been in Super Stock, etc. Highest compliment I've ever been paid was from an old school legend who told my wife that "me and him, we cave men, we old school, we from when you raced and you worked on your stuff, we went fast that way."



Like I said, further up in this thread, for most of this stuff, the genie is out of the bottle, and ain't no one here gonna get it back in. The best we can do is try to advocate for common sense within what we have now. Cryin about what happened won't stop it from gettin worse, and it won't make it better.


I never claimed to know you well, at all. You can call it whatever you like. Whatever you want to call it, it ain't got nuthin to do with what I was talkin about in that post. Or any other post I made in this thread. Like I said, carry on.

[SpeierRacing]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

IMHO, if a Racer is racing a certain combo then said Racer should have parts to maintain that combo. If the parts to maintain that combo no-longer exist then maybe it's time to change your combo. UNLESS EVERY combo is given access to the SAME REPLACEMENT parts.
Just because a Racer is running a popular combo shouldn't (it does) entitle said Racer to be allowed to use parts in his combo that aren't available for every combo.

Your upset with the wrong people.

Same could be said to pick a combo that allows the replacement parts.

We can go around and around. The powers that be control everything.

This casting will never be approved, and we will never be able to save the racer $3000.. It was all about availability and money trying to attract more to this class.

[Greg Hill]

I have no dog in this hunt but the precedent has been set for allowing lots of aftermarket parts that are a lot different than the parts they replace. One example I can think of is the Edlebrock Pontiac heads with the round separated exhaust ports for the D port motors in super stock. Super Stock can now work the chambers so as long as the valves are roughly in the same place, everything measures right and they are the right valve angle what’s wrong with allowing heads with better material.

NHRA has the Edlebrock heads legal for stock for the 67-70 small block Chevy with as cast ports of 185cc and the legal number is 165cc. Looking at this from a cynics viewpoint I think maybe Edlebrock is being treated differently than other folks. What’s fair for the goose is fair for the gander!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

I have no dog in this hunt but the precedent has been set for allowing lots of aftermarket parts that are a lot different than the parts they replace. One example I can think of is the Edlebrock Pontiac heads with the round separated exhaust ports for the D port motors in super stock. Super Stock can now work the chambers so as long as the valves are roughly in the same place, everything measures right and they are the right valve angle what’s wrong with allowing heads with better material.

NHRA has the Edlebrock heads legal for stock for the 67-70 small block Chevy with as cast ports of 185cc and the legal number is 165cc. Looking at this from a cynics viewpoint I think maybe Edlebrock is being treated differently than other folks. What’s fair for the goose is fair for the gander!

Since the rules let the head porter modify it almost however he wants does that really matter? It really comes down to does the port come in under the max cc's. If so then it is good.



Stan

[SBillinson]

The way I see it, for super stock only, if the follow criteria are met, what difference does it make to approve a raw casting?

Correct valve angle
Correct valve placement
Correct port heights
Correct chamber design
Correct CCs

What am I missing?

For those who may think the existing NHRA aluminum heads somehow better represent the factory heads they're replacing, send them to me and give me two days with a tig torch.

[Don Kennedy]

Originally Posted by SBillinson

The way I see it, for super stock only, if the follow criteria are met, what difference does it make to approve a raw casting?

Correct valve angle
Correct valve placement
Correct port heights
Correct chamber design
Correct CCs

What am I missing?

For those who may think the existing NHRA aluminum heads somehow better represent the factory heads they're replacing, send them to me and give me two days with a tig torch.

"What am I missing?" The NHRA-APPROVED casting number by NHRA