Class win

[Herbie Null]

I didnt think I would need legal counsel for this thread, but i guess I was wrong again. Mike I think you should get the gest of what i was trying to say. I will go back to racing and leave the bench racing to you. Hope to pair up against you in the future. Happy Holidays

[Mike Carr]

Herbie, I get what you're saying. No Class Wins for single car entries. All I want to know is why? You and I went through all the same steps to get to the same point. Because you beat someone and I didn't, I get nothing. I just would like to know your reasoning for this opinion?

[Herbie Null]

Mike this is my original POST:Sometimes it is easier to point the finger at others than ourself. We always refer to the old days, in the old days there was just super stock. No GT, modified, trucks and so on. Now with all the single runs, class is a joke. I have seen cars come to a class race and move to a different class just because no one was there in a particular class and they could make a bye run. I have even done this myself, it did not feel real good holding my little WALLY. That is why everyone watches classes with the most car counts, GT/AA-SS/AH-SS/JA there are many more you get my meaning. Instead of adding or removing weight to run from other class cars, now we can do the opposite. We can all move to a class where we have to run heads up for the WALLY, maybe they should not give out class wins for a single bye run period. That would bring back the old days in a hurry, take your licking go home and work on your stuff. Now for the blind fold, ready aim FIRE!!!
I also said:if you chose to build a car that has no one in a class thats your choice. You can still bracket race in the Eliminator, you wont even have a heads up run on race day. Just dont complain about a class WALLY. we wont our cake and eat it too. Mike we can all move up or down a class by adding weight so that there is a heads up run for the class win. If chose to run solo you are still in the Eliminator as long as you make the feild. You just dont get a WALLY for just showing up!

[Herbie Null]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Herbie, I get what you're saying. No Class Wins for single car entries. All I want to know is why? You and I went through all the same steps to get to the same point. Because you beat someone and I didn't, I get nothing. I just would like to know your reasoning for this opinion?

To try and do something that will bring back class racing, manufactures are not going to sit at INDY and watch all the class singels and say next year I think I'll up the purse on class. Instead they say I am droping this S...T. Thats all I am trying to say.

[Mike Carr]

I'd like to agree with most of that. Some of it's not true, at least pertaining to my car(s). From 2001-2005, I raced in Stock driving for Billy Nees, an HF/SA Sunbird, and later an AF/S Sunbird when NHRA screwed up the FWD classes. He built the cars, and allowed me to race them. I didn't have the option on what to drive. I was grateful enough just to have a ride. It would have been totally ignorant of me to go to Billy and say "Build me something else". By your line of thinking, I didn't deserve my three Wally's because Billy didn't build me a car in a class with multiple entrants. Shame on us.

I know all about adjusting weight. With the HF/SA, you could NOT move to another class.. HF/SA was a 27.5 pound class. The lowest of the (then) sixteen FWD Classes. Minimum weight of 2,508. GF/SA was 23.50-27.49 pound class. Minimum weight was 2,168. No way in hell a four door Sunbird like that was getting to 200 pounds lighter than a two door, fiberglass and carbon fiber Pro Stock. Can't make G weight, and there is no IF/SA to drop to. So the car was stuck in HF/SA only.

What do you want done? Should NHRA abolish all the classes that don't have x-amount of annual participants? Should everyone build/buy/borrow a new car so they can compete in a class with multiple entries?

For years, the rule was simple--win Class, you're in. Even later on, the wording was "128 cars--Class Winners + Low ET Qualifiers". Never said anything about how many cars were in a Class. Show up, win Class, you're in. Period. It was that way until 2008.

If it will make you happy, I will take out a loan, build/buy another car, go into a class with three or more cars in it, win Class and hope others in my class show up, so I will then be a deserving Class Winner in your eyes. As far as contigency, it's been around for years, even with all the undeserving bye runs. I got a hundred bucks each year. It was spent before I got home. I had what I wanted--an Indy Wally. I could have cared less about the money. I went for the trophy and bragging rights. Too bad no one else showed up to run me so I could have earned it, in your eyes.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Mark Yacavone]

Herbie, I 'm sure you know; there were a lot of evolutionary changes that got us to where we are today. Maybe a few step backward would fix some of these problems.

For the sake of discussion, would you be in favor of Class Winners only in eliminations?
That would certainly fill some of the mid to lower classes, thus fewer and fewer single runs.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Herbie Null

To try and do something that will bring back class racing, manufactures are not going to sit at INDY and watch all the class singels and say next year I think I'll up the purse on class. Instead they say I am droping this S...T. Thats all I am trying to say.

When are people going to face the fact that we aren't in a car culture anymore.The factories,for all intents and purposes are gone as far as providing affordable new cars,the kids don't give a ***** about our cars,the sponsors are fighting just to stay in business selling parts and the "fans" are a throw back to the Roman Colosseum days of wanting to see blood and guts.I won't even go into the sanctioning associations or the
segment of racers looking out for their interests.
Let's face it,when we lose the interest to go out for a weekend and be with our racing friends and making new ones,we just might as well turn our cars into show cars and sit on a beach chair with liquid refreshment and dream of what was.
BTW Herbie you said yourself you've jumped classes to get an easy class win.What's the problem with someone like me who stays in his class and has no one to join him?
Here it is: Quote: I have even done this myself, it did not feel real good holding my little WALLY.
If you felt that bad then why did you do it?You also could have done a Marlon Brando and refused
to accept it,and the $$$.

[art leong]

Been on both sides of this fence.
In the early years.We ran a B/SA car never lost a class run Usually 3 to 5 cars in the class, if you lost you went home, no qualifiers.
Now I have an Oddball car There are only 2 others in the country. I built the car I have because I don't want to get involved with who can cheat the most and not get caught. It is pounds per cube, I can do anything to the motor I want. They just check cubic inches, wheelbase, and overhang. and I'm on my way.
I suspect most if not all of the highly contested class cars could be sent home if a rule here or there was enforced. I am not accusing anyone. Just stating my feelings. When in Rome you have to speak Italian or you don't get the pizza.
If you don't have to battle someone it costs a lot less money. And I guess thats what people don't like.

[Myron Piatek]

Just a thought from a "bystander".......but does anybody really think that NHRA expected all the Stock and SS classes that they made accomodations for were going to have 2 or more vehicles in them? At least back then it was equal opportunity for all. Now they are cutting back, cutting out or just plain making it difficult for for racers to fill the classes through their "enhancements"!

[bigshow2966]

Originally Posted by Herbie Null

This is the point I was trying to make. If he wanted to win class, he would have built a class car to compete to race other cars, if you chose to build a car that has no one in a class thats your choice. You can still bracket race in the Eliminator, you wont even have a heads up run on race day. Just dont complain about a class WALLY. we wont our cake and eat it too. lol

Mike didn't intentionally build the car in that class to avoid heads-up runs, he built the car because he wanted to race a Slant 6 and that is the only class he fits in. His original plan was to build the car, make it competitive, hopefully set a national record, and then sell it. Well, he's done all but the last, and he is keeping the car because he is having too much fun racing it.

Just so you know, Mike was a Slant 6 bracket racer and had one of the fastest Slant cars on the planet. He wanted to race Stock because so many people told him that a Slant could never be competitive. Good thing he didn't listen to them, huh?