To all you INTELLECTUALS (B Parker)

[Gary Parker]

With all the performance gains we have made and been given I believe the indexes or the AHFS needs to be adjusted. How many people are making the same horsepower they did 10 or 5 years ago..

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

If not the AHFS then what?
What I'm hoping for is that a few Old Timers will get on here and explain to the geniuses who don't like (or agree) with the way HP hits are handled now how it was done in the "Good-old-days" before Nitro Joe's and the internet. When you went through Tech and were told that your combo got 5-10-15 HP this week (back then, Tech liked nice, round numbers, no 2-3) and your combo runs this class and weighs this much now.

Would I like to see changes to the AHFS? Sure I would but I don't believe that the Tech Dept. has the time or manpower right now to "fix" it.
I think that it would be great to have some kind of an independent auditor handle it but I can't imagine who or what that would be and I don't believe that the NHRA would allow an outside contractor to handle it anyway.

Come on you Old Poops, remind us what it used to be like in the Good-old-days.

For the rest of you intellectuals, let's hear your excuses.

I guess I'm qualified to respond to this
I can remember when Gary Wood left New York in J/SA, and by the time they got to Pomona, they were in I/SA! Nobody wants that..I don't think.
But what DO most people want? GP just made a point about raising the trigger.
I would do it a different way..I'd lower the indexes about a tenth every three years, until they stop giving away goodies at NHRA..Trigger stays the same.
Only problem with that is our local S/SS Combo series needs all the cars it can get and I wouldn't wanted to anyone left out at the bottom.
Of course , local races can use whatever they want, including the old IHRA + .3 indexes.
If I had a common combination and was in the middle of the pack, I'd want the trigger raised so I had a chance to catch up.
If I had a one of a kind combo in a popular class, I'd probably want the 1.20 under trigger to remain, plus the AHFS at Indy.
I think we need to get everybody on the same page before we can address the problem. It ain't gonna happen, but we can sure beat it around for several pages, here ;-)

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Gary Parker

How many people are making the same horsepower they did 10 or 5 years ago..

The people whose combos aren't "blessed" with replacement blocks,heads(iron AND aluminum), intakes and carbs. The people whose combos don't respond to roller rockers, solid lifters and replacement pistons and rings that don't even LOOK like the original ones but get approved anyway. The people whose combos are carb, intake or cylinder head restricted. These people are making the same or slightly more HP while still being stuck with, mostly, the same HP factor while all of the combos that DO benefit from all of the above "enhancements" complain that the indexes are too soft.
I can build your brother's combo without using a single part that Chevrolet ever installed on a STOCK (meaning original) 402/375 including the intake and the carb!

[Gary Parker]

So you agree Billy. People are making more horsepower. I don't make the rules, Just live by them. My cast iron intake cast heads made more horsepower 5 years in a row. We may not all agree on the enhancements but them are the rules.

[DG]

Every National Event should allow a minimum of 64 car field (no singles) and allow at least 70 entries. The quickest 64 cars qualify for the field. This will help fix the AHFS.

I remember when it was an honor to qualify for a National event. Lets bring back the performance aspect of stock and super stock to qualifying.

[Andys dad]

How about 80 entries at every national event - however only 64 qualify - should cut down on entries filling up at grade 8.

AHFS at a 1000' - no matter where you do it - guys will figure a way to maintain an unfair advantage just to try to qualify high.

It is about egos.


Ron

[Dwight Southerland]

1. AHFS starts at 1/8 mile.
2. At every national event where class is run, all class winners are in the qualified field, even single car class wins. Then fill out the field with top qualifiers.
3. One hp factor per engine. No more car-hp factors. A 350 in an big car carries the same factor as a small sporty car. If the engine is used in various makes and bodies, the factor applies to all. "Engine Families"
4. An independent board? Maybe. Only if it were made up of elected officials,

Run it like this for three years, then come back with complaints. In the meantime, it would be a new set of acts for entertainment.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Gary Parker

So you agree Billy. People are making more horsepower. I don't make the rules, Just live by them. My cast iron intake cast heads made more horsepower 5 years in a row. We may not all agree on the enhancements but them are the rules.

Yes, people are making more HP. But not as much proportionately as the people with a bucket load of "approved replacement parts". Now, let's get to my point and talk about your AFTERMARKET cast iron heads that are carrying 4 and 5 CCs more runner than the OEM head. More HP for 5 years in a row! So the shop doing your STUFF has been manipulating your heads a bit more every year.
Somewhere I saw somebody post "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Who got "greased" to approve aftermarket heads to replace a 624 casting? Especially in Stock! They're not the least bit rare. They are pretty crack prone and hard to manipulate though.
Now the people who have been "blessed" with these "approved/Improved" parts make bigger HP gains than the "have-nots" and want the indexes moved. These same "blessed" people are complaining because they are "approved" to make more HP and yet they complain when the "rules/AHFS" try and GIVE them more HP.
Sorry Gary, if you don't want the AHFS to GIVE you more HP then please come up with a better and quicker way to make the AHFS GIVE BACK HP (HP welfare) to the have-nots.
It's stuff like this that just goes to prove that the playing field is no longer "level" in Stock.

[Cbrinson47]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

The people whose combos aren't "blessed" with replacement blocks,heads(iron AND aluminum), intakes and carbs. The people whose combos don't respond to roller rockers, solid lifters and replacement pistons and rings that don't even LOOK like the original ones but get approved anyway. The people whose combos are carb, intake or cylinder head restricted. These people are making the same or slightly more HP while still being stuck with, mostly, the same HP factor while all of the combos that DO benefit from all of the above "enhancements" complain that the indexes are too soft.
I can build your brother's combo without using a single part that Chevrolet ever installed on a STOCK (meaning original) 402/375 including the intake and the carb!

GO BACK TO 1971 ENGINE RULES. TODAYS STOCKER ENGINE IS A JOKE !

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

1. AHFS starts at 1/8 mile.
2. At every national event where class is run, all class winners are in the qualified field, even single car class wins. Then fill out the field with top qualifiers.
3. One hp factor per engine. No more car-hp factors. A 350 in an big car carries the same factor as a small sporty car. If the engine is used in various makes and bodies, the factor applies to all. "Engine Families"
4. An independent board? Maybe. Only if it were made up of elected officials,

Run it like this for three years, then come back with complaints. In the meantime, it would be a new set of acts for entertainment.

IF you have an effective monitoring board, the AHFS would not be necessary.