Locked timing , yes or no - Page 2

Dwight Southerland · 05-02-2014, 08:48 AM

For those using a locked distributor or a crank trigger, you can also use one of the many ignition control boxes that have a built in retard circuit for starting. If you use mechanical advance, it will help to limit the amount of advance so that you have a lot of advance at idle to help engine idle quality with long duration camshaft. Seems like I had 10-12 degrees of advance in the distributor of my stocker so the fixed timing adjustment would be in the 24-30 degree range.

1320racer · 05-02-2014, 09:18 AM

the start retards do not work, been there done that. Some have stated they pull too much timing out.

Dwight Southerland · 05-02-2014, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer

the start retards do not work, been there don't that. So have stated they pull too much timing out.

Not necessarily true. There are lots of solutions on the market and every engine combination is different. It will pay to do research and talk to those who it works for. I agree that some work and some do not.

Ron Gusack · 05-02-2014, 10:49 AM

Seems to me that the perfect advance curve would be beneficial to power gains through the rpm range and that the only real advantage to locked timing is a cleaner low rpm (driveability) car. If we want max pressure at a certain crank angle throughout the rpm range, don't we have to light the plug at various points? Maybe the rpm's are high enough and the rpm band is narrow enough that full advance is all that's needed going down the track. For my foot brake bracket car it seems like the correct curve would yield more power, but who cares about a little better ET in a bracket car?

Am I way off here?

Mike Pearson · 05-02-2014, 11:15 AM

I use a crank trigger set up with MSD 7AL locked timing with an MSD retard module. The car starts perfectly. I did convert to a 16V battery this year and it makes a world of difference. The 16v battery seems to have picked my car up a bit too.

Alan Roehrich · 05-02-2014, 01:43 PM

Well, we run 12:1 big blocks in both class cars, both with MSD ignition, both with locked distributors (Super Stock engine has a crank trigger). Stocker is 12 volt, Super Stock car is 16 volt. Neither has any starting problems, both use the 20 degree start retard.

joespanova · 05-02-2014, 05:41 PM

I dont even use a start retard...............with the 16 volt setup I've never had a problem.

GTX JOHN · 05-04-2014, 04:05 PM

We run MSD with the lightest (Silver) springs and
the smallest advance bushings in our fleet of cars.
Timing is in by about 21-2200 and all our stuff leaves
the line at a higher stall speed than that. We have not
found a issue with timing chattering at the RPM we run
our stuff ( not much over 7400 ).

I may lock out the Kids Super Stock for a couple runs
and see if we pick up anything in MPH next race.

I always spun the engine on a locked out car in the old
days........... then switched the ignition on after it was turning
over pretty fast. I still do on extremely high compression bracket
stuff.

Run to Rund · 05-05-2014, 12:52 PM

I also heard some start retards like my MSD 7AL might not work well, and in principle at idle you don't want full mechanical advance anyway. I agree with the above and also use light springs and silver stop to give about 12 deg. at starting, which gives around 22 at 1000, and all in at about 2200.

05-02-2014, 08:48 AM	#11
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 1,983 Likes: 54 Liked 726 Times in 177 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no For those using a locked distributor or a crank trigger, you can also use one of the many ignition control boxes that have a built in retard circuit for starting. If you use mechanical advance, it will help to limit the amount of advance so that you have a lot of advance at idle to help engine idle quality with long duration camshaft. Seems like I had 10-12 degrees of advance in the distributor of my stocker so the fixed timing adjustment would be in the 24-30 degree range.

05-02-2014, 09:18 AM	#12
1320racer VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,794 Likes: 74 Liked 424 Times in 204 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no the start retards do not work, been there done that. Some have stated they pull too much timing out. Last edited by 1320racer; 05-02-2014 at 02:10 PM.

05-02-2014, 10:49 AM	#14
Ron Gusack Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 244 Likes: 1 Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no Seems to me that the perfect advance curve would be beneficial to power gains through the rpm range and that the only real advantage to locked timing is a cleaner low rpm (driveability) car. If we want max pressure at a certain crank angle throughout the rpm range, don't we have to light the plug at various points? Maybe the rpm's are high enough and the rpm band is narrow enough that full advance is all that's needed going down the track. For my foot brake bracket car it seems like the correct curve would yield more power, but who cares about a little better ET in a bracket car? Am I way off here?

05-02-2014, 11:15 AM	#15
Mike Pearson VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,330 Likes: 548 Liked 1,656 Times in 507 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no I use a crank trigger set up with MSD 7AL locked timing with an MSD retard module. The car starts perfectly. I did convert to a 16V battery this year and it makes a world of difference. The 16v battery seems to have picked my car up a bit too. __________________ Mike Pearson 2485 SS

05-02-2014, 01:43 PM	#16
Alan Roehrich VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 4,945 Likes: 1,030 Liked 1,119 Times in 294 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no Well, we run 12:1 big blocks in both class cars, both with MSD ignition, both with locked distributors (Super Stock engine has a crank trigger). Stocker is 12 volt, Super Stock car is 16 volt. Neither has any starting problems, both use the 20 degree start retard. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

05-02-2014, 05:41 PM	#17
joespanova Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ga. Posts: 521 Likes: 7 Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no I dont even use a start retard...............with the 16 volt setup I've never had a problem.

05-04-2014, 04:05 PM	#18
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 2,244 Liked 1,888 Times in 581 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no We run MSD with the lightest (Silver) springs and the smallest advance bushings in our fleet of cars. Timing is in by about 21-2200 and all our stuff leaves the line at a higher stall speed than that. We have not found a issue with timing chattering at the RPM we run our stuff ( not much over 7400 ). I may lock out the Kids Super Stock for a couple runs and see if we pick up anything in MPH next race. I always spun the engine on a locked out car in the old days........... then switched the ignition on after it was turning over pretty fast. I still do on extremely high compression bracket stuff. __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock

05-05-2014, 12:52 PM	#19
Run to Rund Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 574 Likes: 6 Liked 44 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Locked timing , yes or no I also heard some start retards like my MSD 7AL might not work well, and in principle at idle you don't want full mechanical advance anyway. I agree with the above and also use light springs and silver stop to give about 12 deg. at starting, which gives around 22 at 1000, and all in at about 2200.