Engine break in and seating the rings????

[Jeff Lee]

The best thing you can do after getting the proper hone (an art in itself) is to apply the Total Seal paste that you burnish to the cylinder walls. I can't find it on their website but it was developed by my engine builder, Bud Yancer of MACH Development. It is sold and marketed (?) by total seal. After that, Gibbs break-in oil. With anything coming out of that shop, leak down after dyno break in should be around 1%. And that's using gapped rings.

[340Cuda]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

The best thing you can do after getting the proper hone (an art in itself) is to apply the Total Seal paste that you burnish to the cylinder walls. I can't find it on their website but it was developed by my engine builder, Bud Yancer of MACH Development. It is sold and marketed (?) by total seal. After that, Gibbs break-in oil. With anything coming out of that shop, leak down after dyno break in should be around 1%. And that's using gapped rings.

Summit has it...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tsr-qs

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by carl hinkson

It really depends on how the block was prepped. If it was plate honed with a good hone the rings should seat pretty quick,

When you have cylinder like these I would a\say they will never seat properly
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j459/cegaithe/Problems%20in%20the%20406/2013052295154845_zps4d80e12f.jpg[/IMG][/URL]









A leak down test will tell you if the rings have seated.

I don't think any break in oil is going aid in sealing these rings.

[Adger Smith]

400 blocks are very touchy about the hone & plate procedure to get the bores right.
I agree with you Carl. I spend more time on 400 blocks than any other type of block that comes through my shop.
The procedure (if the pictures are right) for the hone job needs to change to get good ring seal. The studs need to be installed with the torque plate instead of bolts. There is a totally diffrent load put on the block with stud than bolts. You can see bore distortion and leakage in the original pictures of the bore. The distortion is all different down about 1/12 to 2 inches. Above that bolt and studs pull on the bore a different way. I can't tell if there is a gasket under the plate. For the best results they need to use the same type gasket that will be used when the engine is assembled. They are wasting time and effort to use a plate with bolts and then add studs when they do the assembly.
Might as well hone it with out a plate installed. You will get about the same results and leakage.

[Reed Granrt]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

400 blocks are very touchy about the hone & plate procedure to get the bores right.
I agree with you Carl. I spend more time on 400 blocks than any other type of block that comes through my shop.
The procedure (if the pictures are right) for the hone job needs to change to get good ring seal. The studs need to be installed with the torque plate instead of bolts. There is a totally diffrent load put on the block with stud than bolts. You can see bore distortion and leakage in the original pictures of the bore. The distortion is all different down about 1/12 to 2 inches. Above that bolt and studs pull on the bore a different way. I can't tell if there is a gasket under the plate. For the best results they need to use the same type gasket that will be used when the engine is assembled. They are wasting time and effort to use a plate with bolts and then add studs when they do the assembly.
Might as well hone it with out a plate installed. You will get about the same results and leakage.

Adger--Carl
I took a 400 block that was no good. I only worked with the inward cylinder so I could learn. I used bolts on one side and studs on the other sides. Both sides I used a torque plate. Both sides ended up shrinking the bore around the threads. The studs moved the block in more but not as much as I first thought. I was trying to determine which would be better if customer did not know what they were going to do (bolt or studs). As yall said, there was no best. But I was surprised to find that there was not as much difference with or without the gasket. Did yall find the same thing???? but you have to have the torque plate.
reed

[Adger Smith]

I'm sure that is what you found, but you if you had moved down about 11/2 " below the studs that is where the "real difference" is seen. Studs apply more torque load to the actual structure they are installed in than bolts. The wrinkle that always comes in a bore is way different with studs. What you did was see the difference in the movement in the thread pitch area. That is the tread of the block trying to separate from the thread of the bolt or stud. Since both thread pitches are the same the only difference is the applied torque load. That can be different because of the fine thread of the stud's nut and the bolt with no nut with a fine pitch.
Look in the picture about 2 " below the deck. See where the combustion gasses have been leaking past. That is where the real leakage usually happens. There is a very slight wrinkle in the cylinder there. Its location & size in each cylinder will vary due to the wall thickness/strength of the wall. This wrinkle is also the reason that one should use the same length bolts in a stress plate as what comes through the head you are using. It is real hard to measure with a dial bore gauge because you assume that the point across the bore is straight. I had a buddy that was in Engineering school with me that went on to be a bridge structural engineer. If I want to talk about bolts and studs I had better have atleast an afternoon to spend listening to him. If you are spending the effort to do a good job I think it is best to do the bore and hone with the fasteners in the torque plate installed just like you are going to use in final assembly.

[randy wilson]

Adger is probably correct. However, I have had blocks honed with studs, put together with bolts, and blocks honed with bolts, put together with studs, and not seen any leak down difference, or performance difference. That being said, he's always used the proper gasket, even torqued the oil pump down. And recommends you use the same fasteners he torques with. That being Al Parker. He has done a 283 block so well, it had zero leak down. I mean ZERO, all 8 holes. I do notice some stock blocks, not all, show the imprint of the studs, or bolts in the wall after tear down. On our last block done, a small bore bowtie, we looked at the computer graphs, and seen we had 20.39 inches of vac on a wet sump.

[Supershifter1955]

Great conversation all!

[carl hinkson]

On OEM block its best to hone using the same gasket and Hardware to used in the end build, I have seen where using a stock replacement gasket 7733PT-2 and going to a 1003 Felpro gasket will change the bore dimension at the top of the cylinder.

OEM blocks are pretty frail compared to a Bowtie or Dart block

[Mike Taylor 3601]

one other thing I have'nt saw anyone mention is that your torque plate needs to be close to same bore as block,Mike @ BHJ recommended within .060'',I learned this after I did my 305 the first time and used 350 plates when I tore down first time looked like had'nt had used torque plates.
Alot of people don't realize how much a stock block changes when heads are torqued in,most cases you hone with torque plates then remove them and go back and recheck cylinder bore w/ bore gauge cylinders are screwed up,reinstall plates and torque they go back like they were when you honed them.
Mike Taylor 3601