An Idiots Guide to Super Class Racing

[Rich Biebel]

Predicted lap making is the term I like to use. It fits all sportsman classes and all bracket racing. Fixed index or dial your own, it's the same thing. Throttle stop racing is great and so is bracket racing.....I prefer a Pro Tree, but I also prefer racing wide open.....the .90 classes are way overdue for some rules changes or index changes. Speed up the indexes or put a mph limit in place. The proliferation of 1000hp engines is what has made the .90 classes so unattractive to many people. They have to shut down way more than a 700hp engine to run the same index. If you strapped any one of the people that say these derogatory things in a 8.90/175+mph dragster and let them race it.....they'd change their tune......and say wow that was pretty good......when can I run again?....

[Jason Oldfield]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

or put a mph limit in place

Better watch it there Rich...I got death threats for writing about such a thing 8 or 9 years ago, and it's only gotten worse since then.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE competing in S/St and S/G, but the current throttle stop situation is a joke. I'm a relatively recent convert to the starting line stop configuration (about 5 years ago), and I have to say that from a ride standpoint, my car is now boring as hell to drive. It used to leave wheels in the air, sitting you back in the seat. Now, it drives off the starting line like my wife's minivan. Is it more consistent? Sure. Has it made me more competitive? Absolutely. But, the ride is still boring. Good thing I like the competition.

With throttle stops, the cars keep getting faster and faster while running the same index because we all know there's an advantage to being the faster car on the top end. So, what's happened over time is people have gone from building $5,000 600hp motors to spending ungodly amounts of money to build 1000hp+ engines. Now, if you're going to run T/S or T/D too, then I think that makes sense. But, to take one of those motors and put it on a throttle stop it's entire life is just ridiculous. But, with the current state of the classes its a necessity (or if you have a door car, you can throw some ballast in it and go race S/St).

Think about how much money we could save if the electronics (including delay boxes) / throttle stops were gone. Most racers complain that NHRA should be doing things to help us save money, and the easiest one of all in the long run would be to take something OFF of our cars. I don't see it EVER happening, but I would most certainly be in favor of it. It would make these classes EVEN MORE of a driver's race, plus it would make the classes more exciting to watch for the normal everyday spectator.

For those that want to go fast and have the power to do so, I'd say create a 7.90 heads up class. Most S/G cars today would probably fit nicely into such a category or S/C, only needing to slow their cars down a few tenths, which could easily be done with some type of completely mechanical throttle linkage stop (i.e. a bolt under the gas pedal).

Let the flames and death threats begin....

[Eddie Arnold Jr.]

Jason ,,,, No Flames or Death Threats !!!
If you can't beat them , then join them,,,, Get a Big , Big Block ,,,,, I did

Colorful Racer

[Jason Oldfield]

That's just my point Eddie. You just spent a bunch of money to go FASTER, but you're not running any QUICKER! You're still running 9.90 ETs, and the ONLY reason why you had to do this was so that you could chase more often. Take away the electronics and throttle stops, and I'm guessing your motivation to speed your car up from a car that could run 8.90's to 7.90's probably goes away (unless you have some T/S racing in your future).

I'm no different. I have another small block in the works that should be able to make my car run about 8.90s. At that point, I MAY run more S/G races, but that's not a given, and I very well may stay in S/St. Is this necessary? No, but I do feel that it will give me a competitive advantage. Again, if there's no such things as throttle stops or electronics in cars (or if a speed limit were put in place), the ONLY reason why I'd be building this new motor would be to move up to S/C. My car in more than fast enough to run S/G now, just not in today's day and age of starting line throttle stops with massive amounts of time in them.

What good is an 800hp+ motor going to do me in S/G if I have no effective way of slowing it down? With a bolt under the gas pedal (or other such mechanical linkage stop) I could certainly slow the car down to run 9.90s, but it would be at much closer to the normal 135 mph required to do so, rather than the 170+ mph cars are running today.

And hopefully nobody is taking my posts the wrong way. I'm not bitching because I can't be competitive with the rules of today. I just think we could all save ourselves a boat load of money by getting rid of the electronics madness that the .90 classes have turned into, and creating a 7.90 heads-up class for those that do want to go faster. It has become a lot easier to go faster these days, but I don't think anybody would be willing to step up and say that its cheap to build a car that can consistently run in the high 7's or low 8's without nitrous. Easier than 20 years ago? Certainly, but still not cheap.

I'd better go back to lurking mode before a lynch mob shows up for me...

[Bob Verwold]

Myself and others I've talked to could live with some kind of MPH break-off. If I heard correctly at Norwalk there was a S/G Vette running 201MPH. Granted he also ran T/S, but 201 for S/G I for one think it's getting out of hand................ Also in S/ST there are several cars at 150+. (Guess I need a BIG block also) My .02 for what it's worth.........

[CBS]

you've been due for a long post....

We've had some interest in the Sportsman Advisory Council about a class index change.....but also some against it.....I think we need to get all the classes at the nationals first before we shuffle the cards...because it might leave some guys out that can't step up...

I am on the fence on this one....I don't believe our cars will be going any faster.....


CBS

[Rich Biebel]

I won S/G at the SummerNationals in 1988 at Englishtown......my car had a Dedenbaer plate stop and I left the line WOT and went on the stop as soon as I shifted to high gear (manually by rpm) I had no delay box and needed a "speeder-upper" box......the only way I could get a sub .440 RT was to roll in. My car could probably run 9.50's flat out at maybe 140 on a good day. I can't think of a single car of that era that could run much different. We had side by side races with a lot of cars doing pretty good wheelies and the racing was close and fun. My car was a short wheelbase Vega and I could easily make it get plenty high but usually had it locked down.......20 years and add 300-400 hp and a Super Class race today is pretty boring. My dragsters have usually been setup to come off the stop in high gear for 8.90 racing....like lots of cars. It's a rediculous ride compared to a WOT run. I can go 7.90 or better wide open and I have a miniscule by todays standards....509 on gas.

[Jason Oldfield]

Originally Posted by CBS

you've been due for a long post....

We've had some interest in the Sportsman Advisory Council about a class index change.....but also some against it.....I think we need to get all the classes at the nationals first before we shuffle the cards...because it might leave some guys out that can't step up...

I am on the fence on this one....I don't believe our cars will be going any faster.....

CBS

Honestly Rock, I don't think an index change is the answer. Lowing the indexes in the three .90 categories really won't change much in the long run. In the short term, it absolutely will make the races a little more exciting to watch (and participate in). But for the most part, all that will happen is that many in S/G will drop down to S/St so they can still run 9.90 at 160mph+. Those in S/St will then be forced to either spend more money to go faster to keep up, or continue to bring a knife to a gun fight. At that point, I would expect that you'd see the majority of the S/St cars that run under 130mph leave the class.

In the newly revamped S/G category, people will continue to spend ungodly amounts of money to make their cars go faster and faster, until they're running 8.90 at 186,000 miles/second (that's the approximate speed of light for those of you that may have wondered where I came up with that ridiculous number). Same goes for S/C except at 7.90 seconds.

I have no problem with evolution, and I believe a new 7.90 category is needed (or T/S and T/D eliminators, if people would rather those). The speed issue won't be solved until the tools that allow us to run these crazy speeds are taken away. And if that ever happens, I'll be more than happy to smash my brand new K&R Pro Cube with a sledge hammer (you can hold me to that, and I'll even post the exclusive pictures right here).

I generally don't bring this issue up with other .90 class racers, as it's like talking politics or religion. But, I'd be real interested to see a large poll of all the competitors to see how they really feel about this issue. I'm sure some would want to leave everything as is because they're successful now with the current configuration, while I'm sure others would want to see it left as is because they're generally averse to change. But, I think you'd find more people in support of such a change than you might think, ASSUMING they are presented with educated reasoning, rather than just a simple poll asking, "Should throttle stops be banned?" I know the outcome of a poll phrased as such would be overwhelmingly in favor of leaving everything as is.

For now though, I'm with you. Trying to get this type of change through will be as easy as coming up with a national health care system. So, I'd go for the lower-hanging fruit, which is getting all the classes back at all national events (even though this probably doesn't include S/St).

So, not 1 long post, but 3 long posts. Now I'm sure everyone wants to kill me...

[bobby]

I love .90 racing. It makes my job easier when I work the div and nat's in Houston, LOL.
I listen to the radio station and a bunch of my friends race .90 classes, so I get to tell them how they did before they reach the time ticket booth.

I personally don't think that I would ever do that, I like to dial my car in on my own. I love bracket racing. Just doesn't pay well without spending $1000 on diesel fuel to get to the big money races.