Roller Rockers in Stock

Steve Calabro · 06-02-2008, 10:26 AM

Steve, the aftermarket has lots of offerings for both makes with better materials and treatments.

I have tried them all at great expense. The bottom line is that they are still stamped steel and not made to do what we are asking. As many have stated roller rockers are not a performance advantage. Don't you think the adjustable pushrod is a performace advantage that was allowed? Adjustable rockers on cars that they never came on? ETC.

The funny and interesting part of this discussion is that many of you are bringing up issues that have been in the rule book for over 20 years such as adjustable pushrods and the ductile iron rocker arms in Mopars and at the time, no one made an issue of it until now. Do not get me wrong, I recognize many of you have devoted most of your life to a few makes of engine manufacturers and are not knowledgeable on other makes.

SSDiv6: This is just the point i'm trying to make. Thing are allowed when there is a problem. Stamped steel rockers are a big problem.

SSDiv6 · 06-02-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Calabro

SSDiv6: This is just the point i'm trying to make. Thing are allowed when there is a problem. Stamped steel rockers are a big problem.

Steve, I agree, stamped steel rocker arms are the big problem. You do not have an idea how much research, test and analysis I have done on the current stamped rocker arms. My conclusion is the inconsistency in metal thickness and low grade materials and poor quality.

Jeff Lee · 06-02-2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Steve, I agree, stamped steel rocker arms are the big problem. You do not have an idea how much research, test and analysis I have done on the current stamped rocker arms. My conclusion is the inconsistency in metal thickness and low grade materials and poor quality.

Well SSDiv6, you may have access to scientific instruments and labs, but I knew from the get-go

when I took a Speed-Pro/TRW AMC rocker and "thunked" it with my fingernail and it went "dunk"

and the OEM rocker went "diiiinggg"

, then surely the factory offering was better

. Although that did lead to a rockwell hardness test which confirmed a huge difference as I suspected...

SSDiv6 · 06-02-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Well SSDiv6, you may have access to scientific instruments and labs, but I knew from the get-go

when I took a Speed-Pro/TRW AMC rocker and "thunked" it with my fingernail and it went "dunk"

and the OEM rocker went "diiiinggg"

, then surely the factory offering was better

. Although that did lead to a rockwell hardness test which confirmed a huge difference as I suspected...

The lab test allowed me to see the variation on materials and try to find the solution. Yes, you can do it the "Redneck" way via the resonance test, however, I was trying to find how much variation between manufacturers, its ductility and malleability. What I also found with the replacement stamped rocker arms is that in addition to the cycles and loading they are exposed to, the heat affects the malleability.

Steve Calabro · 06-02-2008, 02:45 PM

As I see it from the technical stand point the stamped steel rockers are inferior to the ductile iron rocker arm. Then why would the Chrysler and Ford guys running the iron instead of the stamped steel (ORIGINAL) rockers want it for the Chevy guys WHEN THEY HAVE THAT ADVANTAGE? We have no option!

SSDiv6 · 06-02-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Calabro

As I see it from the technical stand point the stamped steel rockers are inferior to the ductile iron rocker arm. Then why would the Chrysler and Ford guys running the iron instead of the stamped steel (ORIGINAL) rockers want it for the Chevy guys WHEN THEY HAVE THAT ADVANTAGE? We have no option!

Steve, in addition to Mopar and Ford, there are Chevy, Olds, Buick and other makes, asking for the change.

Rory McNeil · 06-02-2008, 04:49 PM

Steve, i can`t speak for the MoPar guys, but every production Ford FE (332,352 thur the 427 & 428`s), came from the factory with iron rocker arms. There was never a stamped steel rocker arm made for the FE Ford. There were 2 different versions of the FE iron rocker arms, the hyd. lifter engines had non adjustable rocker arms, the solid lifter versions had adjusting screws. The non adj. rockers were rated at 1.73 ratio, the adjustables were rated at 1.76, but like most factory rocker arms,advertised vs real world ratios don`t usually jive. The adjustable rockers I checked were normally under 1.73.
The same situation with the SB Ford stamped steel rockers, my 5.0 Mustang rockers normally test at 1.53-1.54, Fords spec is 1.60. I would imagine that the GM and MoPar OE rockers normally don`t compare favorably with the factory specs either.

Steve Calabro · 06-11-2008, 08:48 PM

Rory, Thanks for the info. The rocker ratio is not the problem. You can make it up with cam lobe, pushrod length, and as a Ford guy by shimming the stand. You can also put the adjustable rocker on a non adjustable (hydraulic) non factory non stock valve train! All i'm saying is that many combos can use non OEM valve train parts that are more reliable so why not roller rockers for the GM guys or evereyone if they stop breakage and major expense if they do?

Steve

View Poll Results: Should roller rockers be allowed on all stockers?
Yes	113	53.81%
No	97	46.19%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

06-02-2008, 10:26 AM	#1
Steve Calabro Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 198 Likes: 225 Liked 43 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock Steve, the aftermarket has lots of offerings for both makes with better materials and treatments. I have tried them all at great expense. The bottom line is that they are still stamped steel and not made to do what we are asking. As many have stated roller rockers are not a performance advantage. Don't you think the adjustable pushrod is a performace advantage that was allowed? Adjustable rockers on cars that they never came on? ETC. The funny and interesting part of this discussion is that many of you are bringing up issues that have been in the rule book for over 20 years such as adjustable pushrods and the ductile iron rocker arms in Mopars and at the time, no one made an issue of it until now. Do not get me wrong, I recognize many of you have devoted most of your life to a few makes of engine manufacturers and are not knowledgeable on other makes. SSDiv6: This is just the point i'm trying to make. Thing are allowed when there is a problem. Stamped steel rockers are a big problem. __________________ Steve Calabro 1199 STK, SS

06-02-2008, 02:45 PM	#5
Steve Calabro Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 198 Likes: 225 Liked 43 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock As I see it from the technical stand point the stamped steel rockers are inferior to the ductile iron rocker arm. Then why would the Chrysler and Ford guys running the iron instead of the stamped steel (ORIGINAL) rockers want it for the Chevy guys WHEN THEY HAVE THAT ADVANTAGE? We have no option! __________________ Steve Calabro 1199 STK, SS

06-02-2008, 04:49 PM	#7
Rory McNeil VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: from Vancouver BC Canada, now in Nova Scotia Posts: 1,312 Likes: 323 Liked 1,113 Times in 304 Posts	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock Steve, i can`t speak for the MoPar guys, but every production Ford FE (332,352 thur the 427 & 428`s), came from the factory with iron rocker arms. There was never a stamped steel rocker arm made for the FE Ford. There were 2 different versions of the FE iron rocker arms, the hyd. lifter engines had non adjustable rocker arms, the solid lifter versions had adjusting screws. The non adj. rockers were rated at 1.73 ratio, the adjustables were rated at 1.76, but like most factory rocker arms,advertised vs real world ratios don`t usually jive. The adjustable rockers I checked were normally under 1.73. The same situation with the SB Ford stamped steel rockers, my 5.0 Mustang rockers normally test at 1.53-1.54, Fords spec is 1.60. I would imagine that the GM and MoPar OE rockers normally don`t compare favorably with the factory specs either. __________________ NHRA 6390 STK M/S 85 Mustang

06-11-2008, 08:48 PM	#8
Steve Calabro Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 198 Likes: 225 Liked 43 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock Rory, Thanks for the info. The rocker ratio is not the problem. You can make it up with cam lobe, pushrod length, and as a Ford guy by shimming the stand. You can also put the adjustable rocker on a non adjustable (hydraulic) non factory non stock valve train! All i'm saying is that many combos can use non OEM valve train parts that are more reliable so why not roller rockers for the GM guys or evereyone if they stop breakage and major expense if they do? Steve __________________ Steve Calabro 1199 STK, SS