Roller Rockers in Stock

Jeff Lee · 05-26-2008, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofastorgohome

This poll should be in the competition member section. If you don't have a $15,000+ engine to blow up and oil the track delaying everybodys racing, you shouldn't vote in this poll. The train left years ago as far as what was stock.

Great point!

05-26-2008, 08:05 AM

No on roller rockers, get a cam with a softer ramp and you will reduce the breakage. there are other ways to keep the rockers breaking besides using Jessel rockers. Besides Jeff, you race super stock you dont have a dog in this fight anymore. I wouldn't think it would matter to you.

Jeff Lee · 05-26-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

No on roller rockers, get a cam with a softer ramp and you will reduce the breakage. there are other ways to keep the rockers breaking besides using Jessel rockers. Besides Jeff, you race super stock you dont have a dog in this fight anymore. I wouldn't think it would matter to you.

Still have a Stock number and am involved with several Stockers, including another '70 AMX with my old engine. And I do agree, with a softer ramp you will lessen the breakage. But then again, you will go slower. That's based on my experience anyways.

Joe DeMarzo · 05-26-2008, 01:23 PM

No roller rockers, I have Holyrod stuff and a great engine builder, rev that monster to 8,000 in B/SA and no breakage (yet). We had roughly 20 A-B-C cars over the weekend at a D-1 race and did not hear of one broken rocker on the big blocks,(some dead batteries) lol. Leave stock alone and find the solution to your the problem.

SSDiv6 · 05-26-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

No on roller rockers, get a cam with a softer ramp and you will reduce the breakage. there are other ways to keep the rockers breaking besides using Jessel rockers. Besides Jeff, you race super stock you dont have a dog in this fight anymore. I wouldn't think it would matter to you.

Todd, first at all, there has been aggresive ramps on Stocker cams since day one, even when the rules were more restrictive. Dwell lobes have been available since day one. The aggresiveness of the ramp is limited and dictated by the lifter size.

Who said people are asking for Jesel rockers??? What people are asking is for your standard stud/roller rocker type aluminum rockers. The problem with current rocker arms is that the replacement parts are junk. To save money, made of inferior materials and processes, made overseas, by companies run by accountants ( with the exeption of Julie Jordan

) and not engineers.

I know this for a fact since I have done lots of metallurgy analysis on current replacement and early OEM rockers arms and there is a big difference. I have applied all kinds of coatings and aerospace treatments to stamped rocker arms; they still fail because the inferior materials used in the stamping process does not allow for a uniform metal thickness in the rocker arm, especially in the pushrod cup area, which happens to be the weak spot. You do not need to have big spring pressures to have a replacement stamped rocker arm fail; I have seen them fail with as little as 125 lbs seat pressure.

The rocker arms sold by Holroyd, are heavy duty pieces design for truck and industrail engine applications. Prior to the Holroyd parts, many racers were also experiencing rocker arm failures, including small block Chevies, AMC's, Oldsmobiles and other makes.

Like Jeff, I know of many racers looking for old OEM rocker arms at wrecking yards. By the way, your comment about Jeff Lee not having a say was out of line. Jeff spent lots of money on his AMX while racing in Stock eliminator, and probably one of the reasons why he switched to Super Stock was due to having engine failures caused by rocker arms. Therefore, he has the right to share his opinion on this matter.

05-26-2008, 02:34 PM

This is what I said

"Besides Jeff, you race super stock you dont have a dog in this fight anymore. I wouldn't think it would matter to you".

This is what the NO NAME SSdiv6 guy said I said.
"By the way, your comment about Jeff Lee not having a say was out of line. "

He can have a say, I wondered why he is lobbying for this stuff when he left the class. I was asking a question, thats all.
We don't need roller rockers, guys need to quit taking the easy way out, and lobbying for rule changes. I redlighted in a Heads up race this weekend, should I lobby for pro tree on heads up so I don't redlight??? no I have to work harder as a driver to fix that.

05-26-2008, 02:35 PM

Jesel rockers is where it will wind up, and guys will bitch that it makes no difference.

SSDiv6 · 05-26-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Jesel rockers is where it will wind up, and guys will bitch that it makes no difference.

By the way, did I ever said I was lobbying for roller rockers? All I did was state the facts of why there are rocker arm failures. Jeff is still involved with lots of stockers. Give NHRA some credit, if they were to approve roller rockers, they would never approve a shaft rocker configuration for an application that never had one from the factory. There are only very few shaft rocker configuration engines already running the class such as the Mopars and Buicks. By the way, I have dyno'd engines with both stamped and roller rockers and the power gains are insignificant or null. The main issue is reliability.

SSDiv6 · 05-26-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Jesel rockers is where it will wind up, and guys will bitch that it makes no difference.

If they were to approve Jesels, the difference will not be in performance, it will be in the wallet: $$$$$

05-26-2008, 11:01 PM

"By the way, I have dyno'd engines with both stamped and roller rockers and the power gains are insignificant or null. The main issue is reliability."

Right, and when we have 8800 RPM big blocks in A and AA we will need bigger tires and other things. Do you think with roller rockers guys will run 350 on the seat and 7 or 800 open on there valve train? I'm sure of it. You will see more power. Back in the day the guys that ran good in stock and superstock were the ones that could look at the rule book work within it and bend the rules when they had to, and make the stuff fast with what they had. Not many people could do it. Now you have a class of people who when they get stuck on some problem, or run out of talent trying to make something run they cry for rule changes. If this stuff is too hard or expensive maybe the class isn't for you. Bracket racing is alive and well, GO DO IT. Don't lobby for rule changes because you can't make your situation any better.

Jeff is a good guy, and has a cool car. But his hobby seems to be to try to get rule changes in our class when he is not racing. He got us aftermarket Disc brakes, he was trying to get Solid lifters for everyone because it's just better. Now he is in Super Stock, I don't hear much about rule changes in that class, but still for ours. this stuff has to stop. Draw a line in the sand already and lets race.

View Poll Results: Should roller rockers be allowed on all stockers?
Yes	113	53.81%
No	97	46.19%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

05-26-2008, 08:05 AM	#2
Todd Hoven Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock No on roller rockers, get a cam with a softer ramp and you will reduce the breakage. there are other ways to keep the rockers breaking besides using Jessel rockers. Besides Jeff, you race super stock you dont have a dog in this fight anymore. I wouldn't think it would matter to you.

05-26-2008, 01:23 PM	#4
Joe DeMarzo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Mahopac, NY Posts: 668 Likes: 49 Liked 121 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock No roller rockers, I have Holyrod stuff and a great engine builder, rev that monster to 8,000 in B/SA and no breakage (yet). We had roughly 20 A-B-C cars over the weekend at a D-1 race and did not hear of one broken rocker on the big blocks,(some dead batteries) lol. Leave stock alone and find the solution to your the problem. __________________ Joe DeMarzo 1317 STK

05-26-2008, 02:34 PM	#6
Todd Hoven Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock This is what I said "Besides Jeff, you race super stock you dont have a dog in this fight anymore. I wouldn't think it would matter to you". This is what the NO NAME SSdiv6 guy said I said. "By the way, your comment about Jeff Lee not having a say was out of line. " He can have a say, I wondered why he is lobbying for this stuff when he left the class. I was asking a question, thats all. We don't need roller rockers, guys need to quit taking the easy way out, and lobbying for rule changes. I redlighted in a Heads up race this weekend, should I lobby for pro tree on heads up so I don't redlight??? no I have to work harder as a driver to fix that.

05-26-2008, 02:35 PM	#7
Todd Hoven Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock Jesel rockers is where it will wind up, and guys will bitch that it makes no difference.

05-26-2008, 11:01 PM	#10
Todd Hoven Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Roller Rockers in Stock "By the way, I have dyno'd engines with both stamped and roller rockers and the power gains are insignificant or null. The main issue is reliability." Right, and when we have 8800 RPM big blocks in A and AA we will need bigger tires and other things. Do you think with roller rockers guys will run 350 on the seat and 7 or 800 open on there valve train? I'm sure of it. You will see more power. Back in the day the guys that ran good in stock and superstock were the ones that could look at the rule book work within it and bend the rules when they had to, and make the stuff fast with what they had. Not many people could do it. Now you have a class of people who when they get stuck on some problem, or run out of talent trying to make something run they cry for rule changes. If this stuff is too hard or expensive maybe the class isn't for you. Bracket racing is alive and well, GO DO IT. Don't lobby for rule changes because you can't make your situation any better. Jeff is a good guy, and has a cool car. But his hobby seems to be to try to get rule changes in our class when he is not racing. He got us aftermarket Disc brakes, he was trying to get Solid lifters for everyone because it's just better. Now he is in Super Stock, I don't hear much about rule changes in that class, but still for ours. this stuff has to stop. Draw a line in the sand already and lets race.