Winters Shifter Adjustment...is killing me!!

Project 392 · 11-03-2020, 08:05 PM

Something I have run into in the past that I don't see mentioned. Shifter cable HOUSING adjustment between mounting points. Think the dirt bike throttle cable you had as a kid. If the cable has an adjustable end in one bracket, the slack in the inner cable can be taken out. Happened to me on a Fairbanks shifter and one other that I don't remember. FWIW, I start my checking adjustments in 2nd gear (3sp r.m.v.b.) R,N,1st fall on the trans detents and don;t seem to be as critical as 2 and 3. I make sure that 3rd is precise. I have in the past made brackets to bolt to the trans shift arm to move the ball stud up down or sideways. Hope this is of some help.

Victor in Kingman

OkieRocket · 11-03-2020, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Project 392

Something I have run into in the past that I don't see mentioned. Shifter cable HOUSING adjustment between mounting points. Think the dirt bike throttle cable you had as a kid. If the cable has an adjustable end in one bracket, the slack in the inner cable can be taken out. Happened to me on a Fairbanks shifter and one other that I don't remember. FWIW, I start my checking adjustments in 2nd gear (3sp r.m.v.b.) R,N,1st fall on the trans detents and don;t seem to be as critical as 2 and 3. I make sure that 3rd is precise. I have in the past made brackets to bolt to the trans shift arm to move the ball stud up down or sideways. Hope this is of some help.
Victor in Kingman

Thanks for the info. Victor....I was wondering if "moving" the Bracket up or down might work, or if it was a big "no no." I appreciate your comments.

OkieRocket · 11-05-2020, 11:42 AM

Just an update.....I spoke to Winters and they think that I may have received the wrong Transmission Shift Lever Arm in the "Install Kit," or maybe the Gate Plate is a little off on the stamping. They are sending me both Parts at no charge to see if we can get his fixed. I'll post more updates as I have new info.

OkieRocket · 01-08-2021, 02:46 PM

The latest update in the "Winters Shifter Saga"....
I think Winters has done all they know to do to help me. They've been courteous and attentive. I just don't think they have enough in depth, hands-on installation knowledge about my specific Rossler TH400 Transmission

....Here's what I have found up to now..... I'm not claiming to be an "expert" on this issue, or on TH400 Transmissions. I've just been at a continual "dead end" and not able to get anywhere in solving my problems by calling the Shifter Mfr., etc.....so I had to try to chase down a possible solution......So here goes!

After speaking with a number of other Transmission &Shifter-related Companies (TCI, ATI, CPT, Century Performance, etc.), trying to find someone who can help me, I "think" I finally have the "answer" to why I have had such a hard time in getting everything matched up and shifting correctly.....It's all about the "geometry" in the Shift Patterns, shift travels, Trans. & Shifter "Arc's," etc. for my specific Transmission. The Brackets and Gate Positions in my Winters Shifter are based on an "OEM" TH400. When a racing Transmission is assembled, there are many Custom parts and items that can vary to some degree.... like the angularity of the "flats" on the Shift Shaft on the Transmission and the final angularity of the Rooster Comb inside of the Transmission (due to the use of a Custom-mfd. Valve Body Assembly/Valve positions, etc.)......In short, these "variations" tend to stack up and change the "geometry" of the Shift Patterns and Travels (.....possibly only slightly, but "just enough" to cause problems in mating alignment between the Shifter travel and the Transmission Shift Lever)......So, trying to use an "Off the Shelf" Shifter Kit for a "typical" OEM TH400 is not going to "bolt right on" - without some modifications to either the Trans. Pan Cable Bracket, or the Trans. Shift Lever itself and/or Ball Stud Hole location, or both...It's just simply going to be a "Custom" Installation.

I want everyone to know that I certainly don't "blame" Winters for this situation. they did try to help as best they could. It appears to be simply a case of Winter's possibly never working through the specific "geometry" of the Rossler TH400, so that their Gate Plate and Brackets are "correct" for this specific Transmission.

Again, I'm not trying to say I am an expert. This is just what I have found after about 2 months of having to do research on my own.....Hopefully, this info. might shed some light on this type of problem for someone else fighting the same problem.

Harold

Signman · 01-09-2021, 11:24 AM

Am with you there from the beginning thought there was something up with the gate plate but as you describe the rooster which locates the shifter arm and internal VB workings.

Would think customizing the gate plate would be the easiest route if ball stud locations and minor shimming of the bracket at the trans don't solve the issue. Set up at the trans so it's easy to work on then spend the time on grinding and adding material to the gate plate. Set up for each gear then depending how ugly it is make a custom plate that looks original.

One of the many items we customize on serious class cars.
When complete this will be very rewarding!

Good Luck!

OkieRocket · 01-10-2021, 12:49 AM

Thanks for your comments Frank and your encouragement.....I'm finally starting to understand that it's really all about "the Journey".....doing our best to "split the hairs" to make our Cars the best they can be.......as we truly love these old Drag Cars.

OkieRocket · 01-11-2021, 06:00 PM

V-I-C-T-O-R-Y at last.......yahoo!!....What an ordeal!!

After 2 months of fighting my new Winters Shifter and its "mating" to my new Rossler TH400, I have FINALLY figured it out and fixed my problem....

It ended up being the difference in the Shifter "Bracket & Lever" vs. the specific "geometry" of the Rossler Transmission. I ended up making my own Transmission Shift Lever (i.e., on approx. a 1/16" or so slightly larger and more offset "Arc") and also new Transmission Pan Bracket (approx. 3/4" or so lower and approx. 1/2" or so further forward on the Cable Mounting position on the Bracket).

Once I installed my "new" Bracket & Lever and tested it on the Transmission, it worked perfectly! The ball stud on the Shift Lever lined up perfectly with each gear shift to each position (P, R, N, 1, 2, and 3)....I couldn't believe it!.........It FINALLY works!...... I didn't even have to "modify" the Gate Plate on the Winters Shifter. It worked perfectly.

Glad I'm finally past this "hurdle!"........[I]Hopefully, this info. might help others out there with the same problem.

THANKS to everyone for their input!

Harold

11-03-2020, 08:05 PM	#1
Project 392 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 40 Likes: 196 Liked 26 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Winters Shifter Adjustment...is killing me!! Something I have run into in the past that I don't see mentioned. Shifter cable HOUSING adjustment between mounting points. Think the dirt bike throttle cable you had as a kid. If the cable has an adjustable end in one bracket, the slack in the inner cable can be taken out. Happened to me on a Fairbanks shifter and one other that I don't remember. FWIW, I start my checking adjustments in 2nd gear (3sp r.m.v.b.) R,N,1st fall on the trans detents and don;t seem to be as critical as 2 and 3. I make sure that 3rd is precise. I have in the past made brackets to bolt to the trans shift arm to move the ball stud up down or sideways. Hope this is of some help. Victor in Kingman Last edited by Project 392; 11-03-2020 at 08:07 PM.

11-05-2020, 11:42 AM	#3
OkieRocket Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 43 Likes: 12 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Winters Shifter Adjustment...is killing me!! Just an update.....I spoke to Winters and they think that I may have received the wrong Transmission Shift Lever Arm in the "Install Kit," or maybe the Gate Plate is a little off on the stamping. They are sending me both Parts at no charge to see if we can get his fixed. I'll post more updates as I have new info.

01-08-2021, 02:46 PM	#4
OkieRocket Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 43 Likes: 12 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Winters Shifter Adjustment...is killing me!! The latest update in the "Winters Shifter Saga".... I think Winters has done all they know to do to help me. They've been courteous and attentive. I just don't think they have enough in depth, hands-on installation knowledge about my specific Rossler TH400 Transmission ....Here's what I have found up to now..... I'm not claiming to be an "expert" on this issue, or on TH400 Transmissions. I've just been at a continual "dead end" and not able to get anywhere in solving my problems by calling the Shifter Mfr., etc.....so I had to try to chase down a possible solution......So here goes! After speaking with a number of other Transmission &Shifter-related Companies (TCI, ATI, CPT, Century Performance, etc.), trying to find someone who can help me, I "think" I finally have the "answer" to why I have had such a hard time in getting everything matched up and shifting correctly.....It's all about the "*geometry" in the Shift Patterns, shift travels, Trans. & Shifter "Arc's," etc. for my specific Transmission. The Brackets* and Gate Positions in my Winters Shifter are based on an "OEM" TH400. When a racing Transmission is assembled, there are many Custom parts and items that can vary to some degree.... like the angularity of the "flats" on the Shift Shaft on the Transmission and the final angularity of the Rooster Comb inside of the Transmission (due to the use of a Custom-mfd. Valve Body Assembly/Valve positions, etc.)......In short, these "variations" tend to stack up and change the "geometry" of the Shift Patterns and Travels (.....possibly only slightly, but "just enough" to cause problems in mating alignment between the Shifter travel and the Transmission Shift Lever)......So, trying to use an "Off the Shelf" Shifter Kit for a "typical" OEM TH400 is not going to "bolt right on" - without some modifications to either the Trans. Pan Cable Bracket, or the Trans. Shift Lever itself and/or Ball Stud Hole location, or both...It's just simply going to be a "Custom" Installation. I want everyone to know that I certainly don't "blame" Winters for this situation. they did try to help as best they could. It appears to be simply a case of Winter's possibly never working through the specific "geometry" of the Rossler TH400, so that their Gate Plate and Brackets are "correct" for this specific Transmission. Again, I'm not trying to say I am an expert. This is just what I have found after about 2 months of having to do research on my own.....Hopefully, this info. might shed some light on this type of problem for someone else fighting the same problem. Harold

01-09-2021, 11:24 AM	#5
Signman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lower Slower Delaware Posts: 535 Likes: 22 Liked 269 Times in 99 Posts	Re: Winters Shifter Adjustment...is killing me!! Am with you there from the beginning thought there was something up with the gate plate but as you describe the rooster which locates the shifter arm and internal VB workings. Would think customizing the gate plate would be the easiest route if ball stud locations and minor shimming of the bracket at the trans don't solve the issue. Set up at the trans so it's easy to work on then spend the time on grinding and adding material to the gate plate. Set up for each gear then depending how ugly it is make a custom plate that looks original. One of the many items we customize on serious class cars. When complete this will be very rewarding! Good Luck! __________________ Frank Ferrucci I/SA 1271 "Be Thankful for the Gifts You are Given"

01-10-2021, 12:49 AM	#6
OkieRocket Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 43 Likes: 12 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Winters Shifter Adjustment...is killing me!! Thanks for your comments Frank and your encouragement.....I'm finally starting to understand that it's really all about "the Journey".....doing our best to "split the hairs" to make our Cars the best they can be.......as we truly love these old Drag Cars.

01-11-2021, 06:00 PM	#7
OkieRocket Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 43 Likes: 12 Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Winters Shifter Adjustment...is killing me!! *V-I-C-T-O-R-Y at last.......yahoo!!....What an ordeal!! After 2 months of fighting my new Winters Shifter and its "mating" to my new Rossler TH400, I have FINALLY figured it out and fixed my problem.... It ended up being the difference* in the Shifter "Bracket & Lever" vs. the specific "*geometry" of the Rossler Transmission. I ended up making my own Transmission Shift Lever (i.e., on approx. a 1/16" or so slightly larger* and more offset "Arc") and also new Transmission Pan Bracket (approx. 3/4" or so lower and approx. 1/2" or so further forward on the Cable Mounting position on the Bracket). Once I installed my "new" Bracket & Lever and tested it on the Transmission, it worked perfectly! The ball stud on the Shift Lever lined up perfectly with each gear shift to each position (P, R, N, 1, 2, and 3)....I couldn't believe it!.........It FINALLY works!...... I didn't even have to "modify" the Gate Plate on the Winters Shifter. It worked perfectly. Glad I'm finally past this "hurdle!"........[I]Hopefully, this info. might help others out there with the same problem. *THANKS* to everyone for their input! Harold