Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers

oldskool · 08-21-2020, 11:44 PM

OK guys, I just found this Q-list that brings up more questions.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=96912

#35 is Sal Piacentini, driving a SS/MA '77 Bird. I've been told that this Bird was 350 Pontiac powered, and that it is the same Bird that Mike Morgan now racers.

Now, #90 is listed as Al Vanis, also driving a SS/MA '77 Bird. Since the class is the same, I assume that this Bird was also 350 Pontiac powered, at the time.

So, does anybody here have more info on the Bird Al was driving ? 350 Pontiac power ? Who owned it ? Who was the next owner and/or driver ? Is the car still racing ? If so, owner, driver, engine ???

Sorry, but this is the 1st time I've even been aware of this car, and that Al Vanis even drove a Super Stock Firebird.

oldskool · 08-26-2020, 08:39 AM

Another question.

Found this pic of what was painted on the rear of the '72 SS/K GTO that Truman Fields raced.

It infers that the car was an NHRA nat record holder in '72, '74, & '75.

I have a pic with a caption saying that Truman set a mph rec. But, I thought that Truman only raced the car in '72. He won Stock @ the US Nats, in '73, in his '68 Bird.

So, my question is: Did Truman drive the SS GTO after the '72 season ?

Was he driving it when it set the '74 & '75 records ?

If not, who was driving it ?

Does anybody have any race results for the car, when Truman was driving it ?

Don't know if he won any races or got any class wins with it. Anybody have more info about the car ?

Still lookin for pics of the '72 Bird Stocker that Pontiac supposedly provided Truman. Haven't found any proof that he actually raced that Bird. Anybody have pics or info ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=14902

oldskool · 08-29-2020, 05:03 AM

Div 3

At the Beech Bend div 3 race, Don Kennedy qualified #4, @ .962 under, with a 9.138.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

His little Sunfire is one of the top 3 quickest Pontiac powered GT Super Stock cars ever.

I'm sure I've already mentioned that Robert Cruzen ran an 8.90 in class @ Indy, in his little 428 powered Cobalt. Also mentioned that Don won the GT/EA class last year @ Indy & Todd Frantz won the GT/FA class in a 428 powered Cobalt. I assume that all 3 cars run the alum E-head version of the 428.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

oldskool · 09-01-2020, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

OK guys, I just found this Q-list that brings up more questions.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=96912

#35 is Sal Piacentini, driving a SS/MA '77 Bird. I've been told that this Bird was 350 Pontiac powered, and that it is the same Bird that Mike Morgan now races.

Now, #90 is listed as Al Vanis, also driving a SS/MA '77 Bird. Since the class is the same, I assume that this Bird was also 350 Pontiac powered, at the time.

So, does anybody here have more info on the Bird Al was driving ? 350 Pontiac power ? Who owned it ? Who was the next owner and/or driver ? Is the car still racing ? If so, owner, driver, engine ???

Sorry, but this is the 1st time I've even been aware of this car, and that Al Vanis even drove a Super Stock Firebird.

This answers some of what I wanted to know.

"...Al Vanis...traded 77 Lemans to Bob Michael' for a 77 Firebird S/S..."

So, Al traded his '77 Lemans for the '77 Bird from Bob Michael. He was running SS/MA with it -- same as the 350 powered Sal Piacentini Bird. So, was Al's Bird also 350 powered ?

I ask since weight can be added to most cars in order to run a class lower than it's natural class. But, from what I can find, it appears that there was a 35hp difference between the 350 & 400 SS engines, in '77 models, at that time.

That would require a large amount of added weight. Over 400lbs, if my math is correct.

SS/M is 14 lbs/hp. '77 400 engine had a 285hp factor for SS. 14 x 285 = 3990lbs. NHRA weight was just over 3500lbs, for a '77 Bird. Don't think rules allow that much added weight, to run a lower class, do they ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=764

Therefore, I assume that a 400 powered '77 Bird could not run as low as SS/MA. If I'm wrong, someone please explain.

Assuming I'm right, either Bob had a 350 in the car when he had it. Or, Al changed it over to a 350 after he got it. Assuming Al was familiar with a 350, since he'd raced the '74 350 powered Ventura.

As a side note, Sal won the SS/MA class at that race.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

I love to search for Pontiac powered cars, on the old Q-lists. On the list for that race, besides the 2 birds mentioned, Steve Smith's '92 GT Bird was Pontiac powered, & was #33. Peter Biondo is listed @ #96, driving a 2000 Bird. I assume that was Phil Monteith's "Hatari" Bird, in which Peter did so much winning.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

If any of this info is wrong, somebody please post the correct info. And, if I missed a Pontiac powered GT car, please post that info, also. Thanks !

Below are pics of a Bird which had:
"Bob Michael
Bob Peters"
on the door. Bob has had so many Pontiacs, I don't if this is the one Al traded for, or not.

I had the 2nd pic labeled "Bob Michael @ Indy". I have no idea what year these pics were taken. But, with solid center wheels, plus Winston on the tower, in the 1st pic, I assume neither pic was taken this century. Probably not the same car Al ran in 2005. I have no idea.

oldskool · 09-01-2020, 10:11 PM

Decided to look for the Al Vanis '77 SS/MA Bird on some Q-lists.

And I found some.

5/28/05 - div 1-1 - #59 - .833 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

6/18/05 - Englishtown - #90 - .631 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=97015

5/28/06 - div 1-1 - #51 - .907 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

Started running SS/KA. I assume that means a change to a 400 engine. Don't think you can jump up 2 classes, with the same engine, by just removing weight. But, what the heck do I know ?

8/26/06 - div 1-4 - #66 - SS/KA - .456 under

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

9/9/06 - div 1-5 - #78 - .321 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

9/30/06 - Toyo Nats - #65 - 10.997 - .553 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

10/30/06 - div 1-6 - He won 2 rounds at this one.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

5/26/07 - div 1-2 - #104 - .264 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

6/21/07 - Englishtown - #108 - .115 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

So far, we know that Al got the car thru a trade, from Bob Michael. And we know that he was on the Q-list of several races. What I don't know is who had the car next, or ?

So, there has to be somebody here who knows what happened to this car, after this.

I assume this car is the one driven by Bob Michael, that is #116 on this 1999 Indy Q-list

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop

At this race, Bob is listed #51, driving a SS/KA '78 Bird. Same car ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop

Here it is in 2000, as a SS/MA '77 again, in #53 position.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

So, once again, are we talkin about just ONE car here, raced by Bob Michael, then later by Al Vanis ? Or ?

oldskool · 09-03-2020, 05:16 PM

Congrats to Don Kennedy & Bill Rink for picking up their class wins, again, with Pontiac power !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

oldskool · 09-08-2020, 05:11 PM

OK guys, ya'll have patience with me now, again.

I realize that some of the questions I ask have already been answered, somewhere in the thread.

However, I can't possibly remember everything I've learned herein, especially about car & drivers I was not even aware of, at the time I'm questioning.

Maybe if this site had a really good search feature, I could find the answers myself. But I'll use a MUCH overused phrase from TV news & politicians: "That being said", I have questions about some of the GT Firebirds that were at one time Pontiac powered, and possibly some that were never Pontiac powered.

(1) The 1st pic below shows the Don Kennedy '92 GT Bird, which I've read was SD455 powered. According to DRC records, looks like Don switched over to his little Sunfire during the last part of the '09 season.

So, who raced the car next ? Is it still being raced ? Pontiac power ? Any other interesting facts or history of this car that might be of interest to some who read this thread ?

(2) In the 2nd pic below, Don's Bird was in the far lane & a white 3rd gen is in the near lane. I have the white Bird listed as belonging to Carroll Warling. Carroll was already racing his '74 A-body in the '98 DRC records.

So, what years did Carroll race that GT BIrd ? What engine ? Any source for performance & race results ? History of car, before & after ? Any good pics ? Checked Auto Imagery. They only have pics of his A & X Body.

(3) Now I have questions about the Biondo driven 4th gen GT Birds. I've seen Sam, Sal, & Peter listed driving a variety of year model GT BIrds. I remember recently seeing a '98 & a 2000 model, seems that I may have seen both on the same Q-list. So, was there only one 4th gen Bird which has worn the "Hatari" name ? OR, has there been more than one ? More than one at the same time ? I know about the 3rd gen Hatari.

I suppose another way to ask the question is: Has there ever been a time when the Biondo guys were racing MORE than one Pontiac powered 4th gen Bird, in the same race, or at least during the same season?

I ASSUME there was only one Phil Monteith 4th gen Bird racing at any given time. But, I've been wrong before. And I've seen Sal & Peter listed driving quite a variety of cars, including the Pontiac powered '77-'78 Bird Stocker.

So, any help sorting all this out for me will be appreciated !

For someone like me who is not familiar with all the Pontiac racer names, these GT cars are very confusing. On most lists, neither the make nor size of the engine is listed. So, with so many GT legal GM engines between say 283 & 455 cubes, how is a guy supposed to know what engine a GT car has.

And to complicate matters even more, some guys who I know use to drive Pontiac powered cars still drive a Pontiac body, with a non-Pontiac engine. VERY confusing, to me.

oldskool · 09-09-2020, 09:17 AM

I noticed that Leo Glasbrenner was running a '15 Camaro, in SS this year.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

Also driving a '14 Camaro in Stock.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

Seems I remember that when he put both Pontiacs up for sale, he said he'd sell one, but keep & race the other. Since he was racing neither, that brings up the question: Did he sell both Pontiacs ?

If he did sell both Pontiacs, did someone buy them who will continue racing them, in Stock/SS, with Pontiac power ?

Anybody here know the status of Leo's 2 Pontiacs ?

oldskool · 09-10-2020, 03:27 PM

I've noticed that since they moved these Pontiac threads to the Nostalgia section, I get very few answers to any questions.

For most questions, it's total crickets.

It's like very few guys ever even look in this section. Maybe the powers that be got tired of seeing these Pontiac threads keep popping back to the top, in the Stock/SS section.

Oh well, I enjoyed lookin up all the info & learned a LOT I didn't know, from guys who actually saw these old Pontiacs race, & from some who actually raced 'em.

So, to all who have contributed to these Pontiac threads, THANKS ! I really appreciate it !

08-26-2020, 08:39 AM	#2
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers Another question. Found this pic of what was painted on the rear of the '72 SS/K GTO that Truman Fields raced. It infers that the car was an NHRA nat record holder in '72, '74, & '75. I have a pic with a caption saying that Truman set a mph rec. But, I thought that Truman only raced the car in '72. He won Stock @ the US Nats, in '73, in his '68 Bird. So, my question is: Did Truman drive the SS GTO after the '72 season ? Was he driving it when it set the '74 & '75 records ? If not, who was driving it ? Does anybody have any race results for the car, when Truman was driving it ? Don't know if he won any races or got any class wins with it. Anybody have more info about the car ? Still lookin for pics of the '72 Bird Stocker that Pontiac supposedly provided Truman. Haven't found any proof that he actually raced that Bird. Anybody have pics or info ? https://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=14902 Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 08-26-2020 at 09:01 AM.

09-09-2020, 09:17 AM	#8
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers I noticed that Leo Glasbrenner was running a '15 Camaro, in SS this year. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop Also driving a '14 Camaro in Stock. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop Seems I remember that when he put both Pontiacs up for sale, he said he'd sell one, but keep & race the other. Since he was racing neither, that brings up the question: Did he sell both Pontiacs ? If he did sell both Pontiacs, did someone buy them who will continue racing them, in Stock/SS, with Pontiac power ? Anybody here know the status of Leo's 2 Pontiacs ? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 09-09-2020 at 09:22 AM.

08-21-2020, 11:44 PM	#1
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers OK guys, I just found this Q-list that brings up more questions. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=96912 #35 is Sal Piacentini, driving a SS/MA '77 Bird. I've been told that this Bird was 350 Pontiac powered, and that it is the same Bird that Mike Morgan now racers. Now, #90 is listed as Al Vanis, also driving a SS/MA '77 Bird. Since the class is the same, I assume that this Bird was also 350 Pontiac powered, at the time. So, does anybody here have more info on the Bird Al was driving ? 350 Pontiac power ? Who owned it ? Who was the next owner and/or driver ? Is the car still racing ? If so, owner, driver, engine ??? Sorry, but this is the 1st time I've even been aware of this car, and that Al Vanis even drove a Super Stock Firebird.

08-29-2020, 05:03 AM	#3
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers Div 3 At the Beech Bend div 3 race, Don Kennedy qualified #4, @ .962 under, with a 9.138. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop His little Sunfire is one of the top 3 quickest Pontiac powered GT Super Stock cars ever. I'm sure I've already mentioned that Robert Cruzen ran an 8.90 in class @ Indy, in his little 428 powered Cobalt. Also mentioned that Don won the GT/EA class last year @ Indy & Todd Frantz won the GT/FA class in a 428 powered Cobalt. I assume that all 3 cars run the alum E-head version of the 428. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop Last edited by oldskool; 08-29-2020 at 05:20 AM.

09-01-2020, 10:11 PM	#5
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers Decided to look for the Al Vanis '77 SS/MA Bird on some Q-lists. And I found some. 5/28/05 - div 1-1 - #59 - .833 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop 6/18/05 - Englishtown - #90 - .631 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=97015 5/28/06 - div 1-1 - #51 - .907 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop Started running SS/KA. I assume that means a change to a 400 engine. Don't think you can jump up 2 classes, with the same engine, by just removing weight. But, what the heck do I know ? 8/26/06 - div 1-4 - #66 - SS/KA - .456 under https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 9/9/06 - div 1-5 - #78 - .321 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 9/30/06 - Toyo Nats - #65 - 10.997 - .553 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 10/30/06 - div 1-6 - He won 2 rounds at this one. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 5/26/07 - div 1-2 - #104 - .264 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 6/21/07 - Englishtown - #108 - .115 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop So far, we know that Al got the car thru a trade, from Bob Michael. And we know that he was on the Q-list of several races. What I don't know is who had the car next, or ? So, there has to be somebody here who knows what happened to this car, after this. I assume this car is the one driven by Bob Michael, that is #116 on this 1999 Indy Q-list https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop At this race, Bob is listed #51, driving a SS/KA '78 Bird. Same car ? https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop Here it is in 2000, as a SS/MA '77 again, in #53 position. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop So, once again, are we talkin about just ONE car here, raced by Bob Michael, then later by Al Vanis ? Or ? Last edited by oldskool; 09-03-2020 at 07:11 PM.

09-03-2020, 05:16 PM	#6
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers Congrats to Don Kennedy & Bill Rink for picking up their class wins, again, with Pontiac power ! https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 09-03-2020 at 05:22 PM.

09-08-2020, 05:11 PM	#7
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers OK guys, ya'll have patience with me now, again. I realize that some of the questions I ask have already been answered, somewhere in the thread. However, I can't possibly remember everything I've learned herein, especially about car & drivers I was not even aware of, at the time I'm questioning. Maybe if this site had a really good search feature, I could find the answers myself. But I'll use a MUCH overused phrase from TV news & politicians: "That being said", I have questions about some of the GT Firebirds that were at one time Pontiac powered, and possibly some that were never Pontiac powered. (1) The 1st pic below shows the Don Kennedy '92 GT Bird, which I've read was SD455 powered. According to DRC records, looks like Don switched over to his little Sunfire during the last part of the '09 season. So, who raced the car next ? Is it still being raced ? Pontiac power ? Any other interesting facts or history of this car that might be of interest to some who read this thread ? (2) In the 2nd pic below, Don's Bird was in the far lane & a white 3rd gen is in the near lane. I have the white Bird listed as belonging to Carroll Warling. Carroll was already racing his '74 A-body in the '98 DRC records. So, what years did Carroll race that GT BIrd ? What engine ? Any source for performance & race results ? History of car, before & after ? Any good pics ? Checked Auto Imagery. They only have pics of his A & X Body. (3) Now I have questions about the Biondo driven 4th gen GT Birds. I've seen Sam, Sal, & Peter listed driving a variety of year model GT BIrds. I remember recently seeing a '98 & a 2000 model, seems that I may have seen both on the same Q-list. So, was there only one 4th gen Bird which has worn the "Hatari" name ? OR, has there been more than one ? More than one at the same time ? I know about the 3rd gen Hatari. I suppose another way to ask the question is: Has there ever been a time when the Biondo guys were racing MORE than one Pontiac powered 4th gen Bird, in the same race, or at least during the same season? I ASSUME there was only one Phil Monteith 4th gen Bird racing at any given time. But, I've been wrong before. And I've seen Sal & Peter listed driving quite a variety of cars, including the Pontiac powered '77-'78 Bird Stocker. So, any help sorting all this out for me will be appreciated ! For someone like me who is not familiar with all the Pontiac racer names, these GT cars are very confusing. On most lists, neither the make nor size of the engine is listed. So, with so many GT legal GM engines between say 283 & 455 cubes, how is a guy supposed to know what engine a GT car has. And to complicate matters even more, some guys who I know use to drive Pontiac powered cars still drive a Pontiac body, with a non-Pontiac engine. VERY confusing, to me. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 09-08-2020 at 05:28 PM.

09-10-2020, 03:27 PM	#9
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 748 Times in 363 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers I've noticed that since they moved these Pontiac threads to the Nostalgia section, I get very few answers to any questions. For most questions, it's total crickets. It's like very few guys ever even look in this section. Maybe the powers that be got tired of seeing these Pontiac threads keep popping back to the top, in the Stock/SS section. Oh well, I enjoyed lookin up all the info & learned a LOT I didn't know, from guys who actually saw these old Pontiacs race, & from some who actually raced 'em. So, to all who have contributed to these Pontiac threads, THANKS ! I really appreciate it !