REM and Surface Treatments

Dwight Southerland · 10-15-2019, 03:02 PM

Contact Tom Watt at Tom's Differentials
http://tomsdifferentials.com/

Mark Ugrich · 10-15-2019, 04:15 PM

I just finished installing a set of 9” REM polished Gleason gears.I don’t think the REM polish will help with performance as much as wear reduction.I also micro blued all the bearings.It certainly helped the rotating torque, but again I doubt I’ll see any performance advantage.The micro blue stuff will most likely help in reducing wear and oil temps depending on the parts that are coated.I wouldn’t change gear ratio because of the polish or coatings.

Dan Fahey · 10-16-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Contact Tom Watt at Tom's Differentials
http://tomsdifferentials.com/

WOW looked up Tom's Differentials
He rebuilt my 12 Bolt differential decades ago.

Tom Watt passed away

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/lege...t-passes-away/

Andy Friar · 10-17-2019, 02:48 PM

REM finishing your gears does help reduce friction between the gear mesh. Getting your gears down 4 Ra surface finish still enables the teeth to still have enough roughness to hold an oil film. Based on what I could learn from the Microblue website, the surface coat is to encourage cover and retention properties of the oil but won't change the surface hardness. My first guess is that you would then be able to run a lighter weight oil in the diff, and thus be able to reduce the windage and churning losses associated with gears going through and slinging oil. Like any of these kinds of changes, the percentage gain is minimal, but I can not see it making the car slower. As another data point, Nascar ring and pinions are DLC coated these days and that combined with improved tooth geometry I am told yields 1-2 mph in an A to B comparison test on a Super Speedway depending on the ratio used. There are 42 different ratios for nascars...

Jim Caughlin · 10-17-2019, 03:15 PM

Don't want to name names as I don't want to get them in trouble but I was told by one of the gear suppliers that it is a waste of time, that the gear basically polish themselves over a period of time. In that instance, I was ordering gears and was requesting the added surface treatment, why would he turn down the extra money if he thought it was worth it?

Jim Caughlin
SS6019

Jim Bailey · 10-22-2019, 09:54 AM

Years ago, when "Pro Gear" sets were becoming no longer available for certain applications, I started researching metal treatments to prolong gear life in my mopar. My search led me to Cryo and Rem finishing, or a combo of both. It didn't take long to realize, like a lot of stuff, that who was doing it and how it was being done mattered. I bought my own equipment so that I could control the processes in my shop. I'm not sure I saw any real E.T. improvement, but …( I did like thinking that I did )... . What I did see, and a testament to the treatment was triple the gear life in my 8 3/4 mopar gears. I went from breaking ring and pinions at around 40 runs, to taking them out, (for no real reason}, selling them used at 120. I'd say this is also why someone who sells gears, or doesn't do the process in house might not recommend it... just sayin ! Also, I think you'd look pretty hard to find a Pro Stock team, or a Nascar team that doesn't do every one of their rears.( check with Tommy Lee ) - Good enough for me.

MEXJOE · 10-24-2019, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bailey

Years ago, when "Pro Gear" sets were becoming no longer available for certain applications, I started researching metal treatments to prolong gear life in my mopar. My search led me to Cryo and Rem finishing, or a combo of both. It didn't take long to realize, like a lot of stuff, that who was doing it and how it was being done mattered. I bought my own equipment so that I could control the processes in my shop. I'm not sure I saw any real E.T. improvement, but …( I did like thinking that I did )... . What I did see, and a testament to the treatment was triple the gear life in my 8 3/4 mopar gears. I went from breaking ring and pinions at around 40 runs, to taking them out, (for no real reason}, selling them used at 120. I'd say this is also why someone who sells gears, or doesn't do the process in house might not recommend it... just sayin ! Also, I think you'd look pretty hard to find a Pro Stock team, or a Nascar team that doesn't do every one of their rears.( check with Tommy Lee ) - Good enough for me.

Do you Cryo first then REM?

Pat6868 · 10-25-2019, 11:38 AM

No REM here, just cryo, as stated by others, big increase in longevity.

10-15-2019, 03:02 PM	#1
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 1,999 Likes: 64 Liked 772 Times in 192 Posts	Re: REM and Surface Treatments Contact Tom Watt at Tom's Differentials http://tomsdifferentials.com/ __________________

10-15-2019, 04:15 PM	#2
Mark Ugrich Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Auburndale,Florida Posts: 220 Likes: 29 Liked 71 Times in 38 Posts	Re: REM and Surface Treatments I just finished installing a set of 9” REM polished Gleason gears.I don’t think the REM polish will help with performance as much as wear reduction.I also micro blued all the bearings.It certainly helped the rotating torque, but again I doubt I’ll see any performance advantage.The micro blue stuff will most likely help in reducing wear and oil temps depending on the parts that are coated.I wouldn’t change gear ratio because of the polish or coatings.

10-17-2019, 02:48 PM	#4
Andy Friar Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Howell, MI Posts: 250 Likes: 699 Liked 226 Times in 76 Posts	Re: REM and Surface Treatments REM finishing your gears does help reduce friction between the gear mesh. Getting your gears down 4 Ra surface finish still enables the teeth to still have enough roughness to hold an oil film. Based on what I could learn from the Microblue website, the surface coat is to encourage cover and retention properties of the oil but won't change the surface hardness. My first guess is that you would then be able to run a lighter weight oil in the diff, and thus be able to reduce the windage and churning losses associated with gears going through and slinging oil. Like any of these kinds of changes, the percentage gain is minimal, but I can not see it making the car slower. As another data point, Nascar ring and pinions are DLC coated these days and that combined with improved tooth geometry I am told yields 1-2 mph in an A to B comparison test on a Super Speedway depending on the ratio used. There are 42 different ratios for nascars... __________________ Andy Friar

10-17-2019, 03:15 PM	#5
Jim Caughlin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Woodburn, Or Posts: 683 Likes: 82 Liked 802 Times in 244 Posts	Re: REM and Surface Treatments Don't want to name names as I don't want to get them in trouble but I was told by one of the gear suppliers that it is a waste of time, that the gear basically polish themselves over a period of time. In that instance, I was ordering gears and was requesting the added surface treatment, why would he turn down the extra money if he thought it was worth it? Jim Caughlin SS6019

10-22-2019, 09:54 AM	#6
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: REM and Surface Treatments Years ago, when "Pro Gear" sets were becoming no longer available for certain applications, I started researching metal treatments to prolong gear life in my mopar. My search led me to Cryo and Rem finishing, or a combo of both. It didn't take long to realize, like a lot of stuff, that who was doing it and how it was being done mattered. I bought my own equipment so that I could control the processes in my shop. I'm not sure I saw any real E.T. improvement, but …( I did like thinking that I did )... . What I did see, and a testament to the treatment was triple the gear life in my 8 3/4 mopar gears. I went from breaking ring and pinions at around 40 runs, to taking them out, (for no real reason}, selling them used at 120. I'd say this is also why someone who sells gears, or doesn't do the process in house might not recommend it... just sayin ! Also, I think you'd look pretty hard to find a Pro Stock team, or a Nascar team that doesn't do every one of their rears.( check with Tommy Lee ) - Good enough for me.

10-25-2019, 11:38 AM	#8
Pat6868 Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 102 Likes: 6 Liked 88 Times in 28 Posts	Re: REM and Surface Treatments No REM here, just cryo, as stated by others, big increase in longevity.